wife needs a newer car

[Bill in Houston]

Ya, it's like this:
SERIES
gas into engine power 43%
generator conversion to electricity 85%
Electicity into battery 85%
Battery to electric motor 85%
electric motor to the wheels 85%
all rolled up = 23.5%
OR
while running directly from engine thru generator to motor (which would not happen much) 31%

NON-HYBRID
gas into engine power 33%
engine to wheels 85%
all rolled up 28%

So all in all, the series hybrid kind of gets killed on all the transfers. I really hope that the transfers can become more efficient.

For the diesel electric locomotives, I think that what it comes down to is that the most efficient, least trouble-prone transmission for a locomotive is a generator and motor.

[jwxr7]

yes, it comes down to component inefficiencies and driving cycles along with the added weight of a dedicated gen-set that runs a large traction motor. Both of which have yet to favor passenger cars, but I'd love to see it work out soon .

[cfg83]

Bill and jwxr7 -

Ok, I didn't know that the series wasn't up to snuff yet. My mistaken impression was that it was "easier" from an engineering standpoint to make today's parallel hybrids instead of series hybrids because car makers *know* how to make engines connect to wheels (simplistic statement, but I think you know what I mean). I didn't know that the energy loss transfers were not competitive.

Let's see : 28% / 23.5% = 1.19 => The non-hybrid is 20% more efficient. That's a pretty big efficiency gap, . My team loses again, .

CarloSW2

[Bill in Houston]

Originally Posted by theclencher

The gas engine optimized for hybrid use picks up 10% efficiency?

I was making stuff up and being optimistic.

[Bill in Houston]

umm, would you settle for "educated guesses that are reasonable enough that nobody has bothered to argue with me"?

[jwxr7]

We test drove an '08 civic lx and an '07 accord lx today. Both had 5 speed autos and 4 cyl engines. I drove the same 7 mile loop with similar speed and style with my scangauge. The civic averaged 36.5 mpg and the accord 31.5 mpg. I didn't hypermile them, I averaged 35 mph speed. I did notice that both of them would downshift and engine brake to some extent when coming to stops. It appears they kill the fuel while doing this because the SG reported open loop under decel . I wish there was a civic hybrid on a local lot to test drive. The closest new hybrid civic is about 60 miles away. If we knew for sure we would get a $2100 tax credit (or better) for an '07 then we just might get one (not sure yet what the '08 tax credit would be). I'm sure the lx would return great FE for the $$ and the hybrid may not recoupe the difference in $ for FE. More than we want to spend too, but I just love the technology. I have the motor/generator out of an '06 on my desk at work, looks pretty bulletproof.

We'll see.

[jwxr7]

Looks like we are going to get a 2008 civic lx tonight. Could have gotten an '07 about $800 cheaper but the '08 was the color she wanted + it has tire pressure monitoring . It's a little over my original price goal listed at the start of this thread, but I was originally leaning towards a used car. We figured we'd spend the small difference we've seen in used vs. new for the latest civic, and start from new.

BTW I was somewhat disgusted in the lack of sales' knowledge on tax credits and the way he discouraged buying hybrids.

[psyshack]

I would get a EX!!!

[SVOboy]

Nice choice! Too bad they don't stock them like the japanese cars.

But then again, in Japan they don't seem to have what we consider a civic anymore, *shrug*

[jwxr7]

Originally Posted by psyshack

I would get a EX!!!

Yeah, if i didn't have to pay the extra $1000 for the auto i would have rather put that money toward the EX package. They didn't have a sedan EX on the lot either. I guess we had to draw the line for price sake somewhere. At least with hubcaps i can put smoothies on easy .

Oh, and thanks for the honda guidance psyshack .