Why is everything so crummy!! warning CAPS have been used

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by TomO

That's exactly how Dodge gets away with saying they have a lifetime warranty!

People will buy new, or lease, and after 5 or so years, they trade in and get a new vehicle. Of course the lifetime warranty is non-transferable.

lol so people like my dad who buys cars and keep em till they rust apart/engien falls out are gonna have a hayday when 20 years later the engine has a problem, and ooh looky here still under warranty

but anyways, yea what has happened? our water heater is a good 25+ years old yet still scalds you plenty...

lol our pushmowers are amazing... we have one of those old murry 20 mowers (everyone did , you know the 3hp engine and the handles awlays break) this one looks like it hit a grenade yet still starts up and runs. our kmart specual has had a horrid knock for 5 years now yet still runs...(my mom hit somehting so hard it bend the blade a perfect 90* DOWN) our other one is a mongomery ward from 1989 (gave it its first oil change 2 months ago...blackest oil i have ever seen) yet prime 3 times and pull the cord and guanteed to start every time.

but yea weve broken about 3 of those thin walled rake handles. yet our metal tined aincent thing from the 80's still here!

tools are a crap shoot. we have several harbor freiht tools and they work perfectly fine still. i have busted one of thier sockets before tho. i use benchtop stuff and it works quite well. quality seems good-exceltnt

lol printers, my dad stil has and uses those old old printers that use the special paper that has the holes along the edges, takes 3 swipes to print one line and is noisy as hell, uses the ribbon ink cartages. YET still works! now his epson printer took a dump after 2 years, my epson apollo works but the cartages keep clogging with gunk so nothign comes out on the paper or if it does theres major streaks thru it. hes usign a cannon now he got from Best buy for liek $50.

but yea, i see it most in automobiles. you cant work on ANYHITNG much newer than 2000.... cant get to anyhting! 8,000 plastic covers hiding everyhting, simple htings are in inconciveable locations. they have WAY over complicated simple stuff which =more screw ups and harder to repair. take my moms tarus for example, to just turn on somehting simple as a domelight, it has to go run thru the body control module which also controls the wipers and about 4,000 othe rhtings it seems.

[2000mc]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

but yea, i see it most in automobiles. you cant work on ANYHITNG much newer than 2000.... cant get to anyhting! 8,000 plastic covers hiding everyhting, simple htings are in inconciveable locations. they have WAY over complicated simple stuff which =more screw ups and harder to repair. take my moms tarus for example, to just turn on somehting simple as a domelight, it has to go run thru the body control module which also controls the wipers and about 4,000 othe rhtings it seems.

its just what you know.... i started working as an auto tech in 2000. to me everything older isa pain in the butt. idiot light comes on, plug in a scanner and you about know whats wrong already. online service information, bulletins, etc... there so much faster than using book manuals, service bulletins are searchable and updated daily. for me, working on non OBDII cars is whats hard.

to add usefull info on quality products...

hand tools (and toolboxes)
1. matco - really top notch, downside is dealers are few and far between
2. snap-on - dealers everywhere, good quality, but you pay for the name
3. mac - slightly limited tool selection vs. snap-on, matco. quality that of snap-on usually at a slightly lower price
4. craftsman - start here, when you break em, get free replacement, buy quality replacement, sell craftsman on ebay, limited tool selection, low rank on quality, low cost, sears is everywhere

DMM - fluke
pnumatics - ingersol-rand
electrics - makita

favorite newer tough tiny bright as hell flashlight - fenix cree/rebel led
no joke, its a quality product from china

[MnFocus]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

favorite newer tough tiny bright as hell flashlight - fenix cree/rebel led
no joke, its a quality product from china

Fenix L1T with SSC p4 led ,custom cr123 battery body and rcr123 3.7v li-ion battery -quality China made and Good Ol' Boy American modified product .

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

its just what you know.... i started working as an auto tech in 2000. to me everything older isa pain in the butt. idiot light comes on, plug in a scanner and you about know whats wrong already. online service information, bulletins, etc... there so much faster than using book manuals, service bulletins are searchable and updated daily. for me, working on non OBDII cars is whats hard.

to add usefull info on quality products...

hand tools (and toolboxes)
1. matco - really top notch, downside is dealers are few and far between
2. snap-on - dealers everywhere, good quality, but you pay for the name
3. mac - slightly limited tool selection vs. snap-on, matco. quality that of snap-on usually at a slightly lower price
4. craftsman - start here, when you break em, get free replacement, buy quality replacement, sell craftsman on ebay, limited tool selection, low rank on quality, low cost, sears is everywhere

DMM - fluke
pnumatics - ingersol-rand
electrics - makita

favorite newer tough tiny bright as hell flashlight - fenix cree/rebel led
no joke, its a quality product from china

ahh but see? u have the ability to go plug in a scanner, us "backyard mechanics" cant do crap then theres a problem with one of the sensors...new cars you have to have arms liek gumby and damn $10K lift to get to stuff...and a dang computer program to tlel you were certian parts are even located! im sure youve worked on the windstar vans and having to change those rear 3 sparkplugs are a load of fun arent they? or try an aerostar, my dad couldnt do it, took it to the shop. took the guy 2 hours to change 6 plugs...

on my truck and car, when somehting goes haywire, its super easy to get to and heck my chvette came with a do it yourself repair manual! tells you how to change plugs, oil, brake pads, all the general maintince stuff.(even has some crude diagnosis system too) and it tells you how to decipher the blinky light codes.


lol need i mention a 70-80's silverado or suburban? if youve ever seen one you can litterally sit on the inside fender and work on the truck theres so much room...

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

ahh but see? u have the ability to go plug in a scanner, us "backyard mechanics" cant do crap then theres a problem with one of the sensors...new cars you have to have arms liek gumby and damn $10K lift to get to stuff...and a dang computer program to tlel you were certian parts are even located! im sure youve worked on the windstar vans and having to change those rear 3 sparkplugs are a load of fun arent they? or try an aerostar, my dad couldnt do it, took it to the shop. took the guy 2 hours to change 6 plugs...

Or have my arms I've yet to have something I couldn't get to from the top or bottom But I have a small and tall frame.

Autozone will scan for free (in my case, SG will scan it for me - but I've yet to need to )

So one you need a computer to get the service manual... the other you need a physical book....

I really don't have any problems working with either older or newer (remember, smaller arms/hands) - but I do like the availability of information on newer cars (from service bulletins to data from the car).

-----
So looking at a reliability table for 2006 (which includes hours in shop for service - presumably including diagnosis, repair and post inspection time)... Average shop service for Honda (#1) was 1.75 hours. Land rover (#26 - last place, not necessarily the longest service time though) is 3.4 hours.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to compare with... Something tells me, however, that these numbers are on par.

But also keep in mind - we can't demand smaller and lighter cars AND keep the engine bay space of a Chevette.

So the extra things a newer car over an older one.... ABS: saved my butt once - worth in in my opinion (anyone want to bid a price on a passenger's life?). Oil/Coolant heat exchanger: why not increase the longevity of oil (recommended change interval is 10,000 miles on my car). FWD: okay, retarded - I won't lie there, to be fair - it does decrease initial vehicle costs. Emissions Equipment: yeah, takes up a good chunk of space - but I don't really like the poo brown clouds. Electric Fans: Space saver in my opinion. Covers: It does reduce noise while reducing weight, not necessary perhaps, but seriously - it's on top and I've never had a problem removing something as accessible as that Plenty of idiot lights: when you can look me in the eye and tell me most other drivers are NOT idiots, I'll agree it's stupid - until then, most other people are idiots in this regard (hence these aptly named lights). Computer control: yes convenience - but I'll never lock my keys in my car, never have a dead battery from leaving anything on, you can break in - but can't start my car, etc. The whole parallel parking thing - if it didn't take so long, it would be pretty useful (again, you might be able to - but that doesn't change the the person that messed with your bumper).

All that said - an older car may have more space to work with - but pretty much every source I've looked at will say that over the past 20 or so years, quality/reliability has increased dramatically (that's overall statistically - which allows for one make/model to decrease, another not to change, and others to increase simultaneously). Most of that increase came from American models where greater quality/reliability improvements were possible.


Sorry to be kinda ranty (don't take anything personal - not the intent of course ). But I'm fairly confident these things are not going to go back to the days of yore. The mfr's will either cash in on the new mass demand, or hold to older convention.

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Or have my arms I've yet to have something I couldn't get to from the top or bottom But I have a small and tall frame.

Autozone will scan for free (in my case, SG will scan it for me - but I've yet to need to )

So one you need a computer to get the service manual... the other you need a physical book....

I really don't have any problems working with either older or newer (remember, smaller arms/hands) - but I do like the availability of information on newer cars (from service bulletins to data from the car).

-----
So looking at a reliability table for 2006 (which includes hours in shop for service - presumably including diagnosis, repair and post inspection time)... Average shop service for Honda (#1) was 1.75 hours. Land rover (#26 - last place, not necessarily the longest service time though) is 3.4 hours.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything to compare with... Something tells me, however, that these numbers are on par.

But also keep in mind - we can't demand smaller and lighter cars AND keep the engine bay space of a Chevette.

So the extra things a newer car over an older one.... ABS: saved my butt once - worth in in my opinion (anyone want to bid a price on a passenger's life?). Oil/Coolant heat exchanger: why not increase the longevity of oil (recommended change interval is 10,000 miles on my car). FWD: okay, retarded - I won't lie there, to be fair - it does decrease initial vehicle costs. Emissions Equipment: yeah, takes up a good chunk of space - but I don't really like the poo brown clouds. Electric Fans: Space saver in my opinion. Covers: It does reduce noise while reducing weight, not necessary perhaps, but seriously - it's on top and I've never had a problem removing something as accessible as that Plenty of idiot lights: when you can look me in the eye and tell me most other drivers are NOT idiots, I'll agree it's stupid - until then, most other people are idiots in this regard (hence these aptly named lights). Computer control: yes convenience - but I'll never lock my keys in my car, never have a dead battery from leaving anything on, you can break in - but can't start my car, etc. The whole parallel parking thing - if it didn't take so long, it would be pretty useful (again, you might be able to - but that doesn't change the the person that messed with your bumper).

All that said - an older car may have more space to work with - but pretty much every source I've looked at will say that over the past 20 or so years, quality/reliability has increased dramatically (that's overall statistically - which allows for one make/model to decrease, another not to change, and others to increase simultaneously). Most of that increase came from American models where greater quality/reliability improvements were possible.


Sorry to be kinda ranty (don't take anything personal - not the intent of course ). But I'm fairly confident these things are not going to go back to the days of yore. The mfr's will either cash in on the new mass demand, or hold to older convention.

lol oh no, i can see from the mechanics point of view(your view) that OBD2 and all the self diagnostics stuf is a dream come true (which i agree, get cars in and out faster, happier customers, more customers, more money etc) some days id love to have a box that plugs into my car and will tell me if anyhting is wrong...but otherdays, i like the ease of old cars and how simple they were. and how easy it is to locate parts (because thier in a somewhat logical location)

yes fwd sucks noddles to work on...i think every car should have an electric fan. since nowadays they have high effecent ones what blow just ammount fo CFM as the stock one. increase mpg and torque.(i wanna put one on my chevette but i dont think my cars alternator could handle the added load)

oh they can still hotwire cars faster than youd think...

hehe i WISH every car has as much engine space as my chevette...

[ezeedee]

Originally Posted by 2000mc

its just what you know.... i started working as an auto tech in 2000. to me everything older isa pain in the butt. idiot light comes on, plug in a scanner and you about know whats wrong already. online service information, bulletins, etc... there so much faster than using book manuals, service bulletins are searchable and updated daily. for me, working on non OBDII cars is whats hard.

to add usefull info on quality products...

hand tools (and toolboxes)
1. matco - really top notch, downside is dealers are few and far between
2. snap-on - dealers everywhere, good quality, but you pay for the name
3. mac - slightly limited tool selection vs. snap-on, matco. quality that of snap-on usually at a slightly lower price
4. craftsman - start here, when you break em, get free replacement, buy quality replacement, sell craftsman on ebay, limited tool selection, low rank on quality, low cost, sears is everywhere

DMM - fluke
pnumatics - ingersol-rand
electrics - makita

favorite newer tough tiny bright as hell flashlight - fenix cree/rebel led
no joke, its a quality product from china

wow, a fellow tool nut!

just gonna x2 everything you just said, but the "name brand" isnt always whats important, matco gets their impact guns from ingersol-rand, puts a matco rubber cover on it, and charges 50 bucks more. for the same tool.

makita, those new lithium ion batteries kick ***! i havent had mine long, but a friend uses them at work all the time and recharges his about once a month.

my fluke dmm is super old (i think its a 43 but not sure), but still does everything i want it to.

im still budget limited to craftsman for the most part, but am upgrading to snap-on/matco as i can afford it.