Trump and the Auto Industry

[R.I.D.E.]

I went and looked at the Insight today. Not terrible. Test drove it. Check Engine Light on IMA light on, no battery level indication, 53.5 mpg on the fuel economy meter. Owner had a BMW M series and one of those BMW suvs. Retired Army vet. No tranny bearing noise. Ran fine but running on the 12 volt battery. Anyone wants it, it's posted on Hampton Roads craigslist and you're welcome to it. It would be fine if you could revive the battery. He told me it would start to show battery power if driven long enough at higher speeds.

Cosmetically not bad, frayed but not torn drivers left seat bolster. Drivers carpet has holes where your feet rest (no floor mats) Definitely needs a THOROUGH cleaning. License plates expired Sept 2016, inspection expired also.

Hood looks to have been repainted, headlights cloudy but would clean up fine.

I just don't see me tackling another project where the parts could exceed the value of the finished product and ONE MORE TIME, I'm working for nothing laborwise.

I had the cash in my pocket and walked away.

Not sure if they are making a NEW replacement battery, versus refurbishing 10 to 17 year old originals. Even if so then you face a potential bad part that would easily put you upside down as far as ever recovering your expense.

[R.I.D.E.]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

You're not superhuman, your reactions are likely as fast or slow as any other person's, which is pretty slow compared to a computer, which can react to several thousand situations at once, not just one or two like a human. You avoided the above examples because you had time to, a collision occurs when there is insufficient time to react, or the human driver doesn't know how to react, or indeed over-reacts to the situation e.g. too much steering input to correct a skid creates a counter skid, too much braking causing a skid. A computer can easily make judgements in these situations, correct braking (such as ABS or ESP) and skids (ESP) and I'd imagine most people have been saved by a computer's reactions several times already without even realising it, ABS stopping wheels locking up, ESP keeping a car straight in icy/wet conditions etc, I know I have.

Cars will be wirelessly networked so they all know what's occurring around them, so instead of a human ploughing into a pile up in blizzard conditions, or coming around a tight bend where there's already a crash, the car will know traffic has collided ahead, and slow down a mile up the road perhaps. There are compilation videos on YouTube of Tesla's avoiding dangerous situations.

It's the elderly that will benefit the most from this tech, people aged 65+ will have less confidence, poorer eyesight, slower reaction times not to mention poorer anticipation, judgement etc than those aged 25-45 for example. This weekend I saw 3 or 4 instances of bad driving by the elderly, one woman doing 37 MPH in a 60 zone causing congestion, who then continued at that speed in a 30 zone, one guy pulling up at a junction who stopped one car length back so he couldn't see if there was approaching traffic, one guy constantly drifting over the lane into oncoming traffic, even on bends (assumed he was drunk before I overtook him) and one who when I went to overtake, drifted over the white line into my path, almost colliding with my car. I had to blast my horn, she had no idea I was behind her. All those situations would have been avoided by self driving cars. You have to remember an autonomous car has 360 degree vision constantly, not 180 in one direction with huge blind spots all around.

For the sake of whatever, lets assume your predictions and beliefs are PERFECT, which takes us to the next issues.

Battery electric car with self driving capability. Now you have eliminated probably 45+% of the US driving population, so those struggling to get to better economic circumstances have no mobility. They would not be inexpensive for a very long time if ever and their life expectancy will be about half of the current population of vehicles.

The road infrastructure will become unsustainable unless you add significant additional tax burden to those few who will be using personal transportation, contributing even more to the separation of those who are wealthy and those who aren't, with the majority subjugating the minority.

Assume AGAIN these issues are resolved and I can get a say $10k self driving car that has only battery power. There is NO reason to worry about climate change being related to the vehicle population, right?

Now consider the industries that exist only due to the ownership of vehicles, their care, maintenance, sales and resales. The whole industry collapses as the "never need maintenance", never wear out" cars just go on and on without a single issue. Potentially your "solution" could cause economic collapse as the 600 million cars on the planet transition to the perfect car with the battery that cost diddily and last for three decades, minimum.

[ChewChewTrain]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

I went and looked at the Insight today. Not terrible. Test drove it. Check Engine Light on IMA light on, no battery level indication, 53.5 mpg on the fuel economy meter. Owner had a BMW M series and one of those BMW suvs. Retired Army vet. No tranny bearing noise. Ran fine but running on the 12 volt battery. Anyone wants it, it's posted on Hampton Roads craigslist and you're welcome to it. It would be fine if you could revive the battery. He told me it would start to show battery power if driven long enough at higher speeds.

Cosmetically not bad, frayed but not torn drivers left seat bolster. Drivers carpet has holes where your feet rest (no floor mats) Definitely needs a THOROUGH cleaning. License plates expired Sept 2016, inspection expired also.

Hood looks to have been repainted, headlights cloudy but would clean up fine.

I just don't see me tackling another project where the parts could exceed the value of the finished product and ONE MORE TIME, I'm working for nothing laborwise.

I had the cash in my pocket and walked away.

Not sure if they are making a NEW replacement battery, versus refurbishing 10 to 17 year old originals. Even if so then you face a potential bad part that would easily put you upside down as far as ever recovering your expense.

Originally, sounded like a GREAT deal. Bummer.

I read the raw materials to build a car is US$3,000. So, I figure any $$$ I pay above that is what I'm essentially paying for engineering and assembly costs.

[R.I.D.E.]

Depending on the state of the "raw" materials, I remember a for F150 was $600, but then we have to factor in the age of the information and the least processing of the materials, iron being basically dirt in its most basic state. I know the difference between dirt and iron ore, there is a layer of iron ore I had to penetrate for the foundation of the last house I built. It's related to an ancient meteor impact in the Chesapeake Bay.

[Draigflag]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

For the sake of whatever, lets assume your predictions and beliefs are PERFECT, which takes us to the next issues.

Battery electric car with self driving capability. Now you have eliminated probably 45+% of the US driving population, so those struggling to get to better economic circumstances have no mobility. They would not be inexpensive for a very long time if ever and their life expectancy will be about half of the current population of vehicles.

The road infrastructure will become unsustainable unless you add significant additional tax burden to those few who will be using personal transportation, contributing even more to the separation of those who are wealthy and those who aren't, with the majority subjugating the minority.

Assume AGAIN these issues are resolved and I can get a say $10k self driving car that has only battery power. There is NO reason to worry about climate change being related to the vehicle population, right?

Now consider the industries that exist only due to the ownership of vehicles, their care, maintenance, sales and resales. The whole industry collapses as the "never need maintenance", never wear out" cars just go on and on without a single issue. Potentially your "solution" could cause economic collapse as the 600 million cars on the planet transition to the perfect car with the battery that cost diddily and last for three decades, minimum.

Mobility would be better, those with disabilities or other attributes that prevent them from driving would be far more mobile. Life expectancy of EV'S will be longer, with 18 moving parts, even replacing every single part multiple times will be cheaper than a new car. Updating the software is done via the Internet like on Teslas, so safety/software issues can be updated with ease.

People still have to pay for fuel, fuel will be taxed as it is now. Remember most cars/batteries will be leased, perhaps with the relevant taxes built in. As car sharing will be popular, the leasing costs will be split between 2 or 3 families so will be even cheaper than owning a car of today. EV's still need maintenance like a regular car, again, it will be part of the leasing infrastructure and monthly payments, like it is for many manufacturers now anyway. If anything, EV's of the future will need more maintenance as they will be providing for more customers, and do many more miles. The speed limit may be raised to 120-150 MPH, with autonomous networking, there will be virtually zero chance of a collision, so people can get to thier destinations quicker and safer. Wireless charging has already been standardised, so self driving cars don't have to physically rely on someone to plug them in, they'll simply drive over the charge pad and recharge whilst you're asleep or shopping, at work etc etc.

The future is hard to imagine for many, but if you welcome change and have a good vision of imagination, it's not difficult to see how things will pan out.

[ChewChewTrain]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

Mobility would be better, those with disabilities or other attributes that prevent them from driving would be far more mobile. Life expectancy of EV'S will be longer, with 18 moving parts, even replacing every single part multiple times will be cheaper than a new car. Updating the software is done via the Internet like on Teslas, so safety/software issues can be updated with ease.

People still have to pay for fuel, fuel will be taxed as it is now. Remember most cars/batteries will be leased, perhaps with the relevant taxes built in. As car sharing will be popular, the leasing costs will be split between 2 or 3 families so will be even cheaper than owning a car of today. EV's still need maintenance like a regular car, again, it will be part of the leasing infrastructure and monthly payments, like it is for many manufacturers now anyway. If anything, EV's of the future will need more maintenance as they will be providing for more customers, and do many more miles. The speed limit may be raised to 120-150 MPH, with autonomous networking, there will be virtually zero chance of a collision, so people can get to thier destinations quicker and safer. Wireless charging has already been standardised, so self driving cars don't have to physically rely on someone to plug them in, they'll simply drive over the charge pad and recharge whilst you're asleep or shopping, at work etc etc.

The future is hard to imagine for many, but if you welcome change and have a good vision of imagination, it's not difficult to see how things will pan out.

Man, you guys sure like to talk a lot. Why can't you be like ME!

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

I went and looked at the Insight today. Not terrible. Test drove it. Check Engine Light on IMA light on, no battery level indication, 53.5 mpg on the fuel economy meter. Owner had a BMW M series and one of those BMW suvs. Retired Army vet. No tranny bearing noise. Ran fine but running on the 12 volt battery. Anyone wants it, it's posted on Hampton Roads craigslist and you're welcome to it. It would be fine if you could revive the battery. He told me it would start to show battery power if driven long enough at higher speeds.

Cosmetically not bad, frayed but not torn drivers left seat bolster. Drivers carpet has holes where your feet rest (no floor mats) Definitely needs a THOROUGH cleaning. License plates expired Sept 2016, inspection expired also.

Hood looks to have been repainted, headlights cloudy but would clean up fine.

I just don't see me tackling another project where the parts could exceed the value of the finished product and ONE MORE TIME, I'm working for nothing laborwise.

I had the cash in my pocket and walked away.

Not sure if they are making a NEW replacement battery, versus refurbishing 10 to 17 year old originals. Even if so then you face a potential bad part that would easily put you upside down as far as ever recovering your expense.

Third parties are out there selling the cells or entire packs assembled from better batteries than Honda used. Still likely a good idea to get a charger/balancer with Honda's battery management software.

Originally Posted by R.I.D.E.

For the sake of whatever, lets assume your predictions and beliefs are PERFECT, which takes us to the next issues.

Battery electric car with self driving capability. Now you have eliminated probably 45+% of the US driving population, so those struggling to get to better economic circumstances have no mobility. They would not be inexpensive for a very long time if ever and their life expectancy will be about half of the current population of vehicles.

The road infrastructure will become unsustainable unless you add significant additional tax burden to those few who will be using personal transportation, contributing even more to the separation of those who are wealthy and those who aren't, with the majority subjugating the minority.

Assume AGAIN these issues are resolved and I can get a say $10k self driving car that has only battery power. There is NO reason to worry about climate change being related to the vehicle population, right?

Now consider the industries that exist only due to the ownership of vehicles, their care, maintenance, sales and resales. The whole industry collapses as the "never need maintenance", never wear out" cars just go on and on without a single issue. Potentially your "solution" could cause economic collapse as the 600 million cars on the planet transition to the perfect car with the battery that cost diddily and last for three decades, minimum.

Two of the biggists pushers for automonous cars is Lyft and Uber; can't afford the car itself, hire one as needed.

The cars of today aren't going to disappear overnight. There will still regular cars for people that want one, and used ones for the less well off. The switch over will be gradual, and allow time for addressing arising issues.

EVs still have maintenance; just not as much items as an ICE car. Then there will be new jobs associated with the batteries.

Fuel taxes are already too low to pay for US infrastructure.

For the rest, do you still ride a horse to work to keep the whip makers, saddle makers, and poop shovelers in business?

[R.I.D.E.]

I agree with you. That is why anyone who believes the transition from the present to the predicted full electric-self driving cars in a decade is delusional. The advocates of that transformation state that insurance will be the "straw that broke the camels back as far as cost of driving".

Worthless predictions on forums that will not exist when the prediction actually occurs are just irrelevant. My suggestion to anyone engaged in the act should try using their supreme intellect to own the total assets of the worlds stock markets in the same predicted decade. Then they can run everything the way they see fit.

[R.I.D.E.]

I trust the OE manufacturers 1000 times more than the current crop unless they have surpassed OEM testing and controls as well as the 10-165k warranty. Even with those parameters the 2002 Insight I owned needed almost $7000 in warranty repairs in the 35k miles I owned it before selling it at 70 k miles.

Today an exploding hover board killed a child. Do you really want 50 pounds of that a foot from your arse.

Told the wife maybe we should NOT leave any device with lithium ion batteries hooked to a charger overnight, could wake up to a house fire, like the gal who went to sleep on the plane and woke up with her head on fire.

I know the Insight uses NIMH tech ancient and more stable, but Honda wants all those 1 gen Insights gone and they make the parts. That's a real uphill battle, once you take the reliability of replacement parts out of the repair and maintenance equation the techniques used to really fix broken cars, become so difficult it becomes a real crap shoot when you can not replace something and continue on to what else it takes to finish the job.

[Draigflag]

In reference to my previous posts about autonomous cars avoiding collisions, check these out. Far too quick for any human to react in most cases:

https://youtu.be/4CBvOjWvKCs