politics and gassavers

[VetteOwner]

From one of the younger people here, a MAJOR problem i see that that email points out is the fact that school history classes teach students about dawn of america up until just before the vietnam war, and that is kinda swept under the rug and all patriotic.

we spent maybe a week on the vietnam war (learning dumb **** like famous battles, generals, dates, some random pointless guy, some poem, song but never really WHY we got involved WHY we did what we did WHY after we changed presidents it took a bad turn. no cant that would drag politics into the classroom which is decided by the parents, schoolboard, state legislature, etc. God forbid little timmy learned we dropped napalm on villages and what really happened to all the people who got vaporized by OUR A-bomb...Parents nowadays are more worried about little suise being "forced" to say "under god" in the pledge of alegence than what thier future holds and what thier being taught.

I think in one of my highschool history classes we actually made it upto and not much past vietnam war. i have no idea wtf happened in this country from after vietnam ended till the early-mid 90's when i was old enough to comprehend what was goin on.

I did take a ancient history college class that i loved because there was no bullsh*t just flat out facts not trying to make someone into a hero just cold evidence for why stuff happened. unfortunately most college students hated highschool history so much because it was boring, mundane, etc so they dont take a real college level history class and actually learn the truith about america and all its skeletons in its many many closets.

A good book to read is: "Lies my teacher told me" explains in depth that i just said above pretty much and does tell about how textbooks have changed so much to paint a pretty picture and always make the USA the good guy.

lol im off my soapbox now...

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

of course things can get nasty in political discussions, but if we'd stop to consider the other view and be courteous...well the rest would take care of itself.

Yes they can...the test of a friendship is being able to still be friends even though disagreeing...

I've had many discussions in person like those which have sprung up on here, at work, over myriad pitchers of beer, or sitting naked in a Jacuzzi (with or without beers) and have remained friends with my fellow arguers, whether or not we agreed.

VetteOwner, I lived through most of the Vietnam era, and I still don't really know just why we were there...

[R.I.D.E.]

One of the sad things about America today is the limitations of choice.
You are either a liberal or a conservative, Democrat or Republican.

I pity the person who assumes to categorize me as one or the other, because they have been indoctrinated into a position where their judgement is irrelevant, and their categorizations are superfluous.

I am neither nor am I either. I am myself and my wife is just about the opposite of myself. In spite of that we have managed to find a way to peacefully coexist for over two decades. To this day I do not know who she voted for for President.

Do I think the Earth is warming? There seems to be evidence to support that conclusion based on empirical observations. On the other hand I remember the cold snap of the early eighties in the Florida Keys when people were worried about the coral reefs dying if the ocean temperatures dropped below 60 degrees.

The last two seasons here have been exceptionally mild.

If our planet is warming then won't the foliage expand its territory and absorb more carbon?

Should I trust the statements of people who profit from a certain position. I find very few people left on this planet that would actually support a position that would directly affect their personal wealth.

Every day in my business I was faced with the choice of honesty or wealth. I did not consider it a rational choice, but I know many do consider it and choose wealth over integrity.

When is the last time you were overcharged for some goods or service. Compare that to when you were undercharged. If it was an honest mistake then the overcharges and undercharges would be equal.

Would you tell the person who undercharged you that they had made a mistake, or would you think of the last overcharge and justify cheating the person who actually made a mistake in your favor?

Do I feel like we should help the less fortunate. Of course we should try to help them become more fortunate, but not by making them more dependent.

Do I believe government has lost its character, morals, and integrity. Yes I think they learned how to spread the wealth by buying votes with other peoples money, and not their own.

"Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war. Why should they go out and do the fighting. They leave that up to the poor."

They loved to give the fighting job to the 18 year olds of my youth, but no vote, or having a drink. It was OK to die for your country, but give you the rights of a citizen? Nah. I was one hernia away from becoming cannon fodder in the fall of 1969, fighting a war that we weren't willing to win.

We had to sacrifice opportunity for the sake of racial equality at 18. The was decided by the old men who had profited from the war, prejudice, and hatred of many prior generations. Sacrifice was perfectly fine, as long as it was someone else's sacrifice.

Should we raise the tax on gasoline to incentivize people to conserve? It does seem like price is the only factor that has that power.

Is spending what you do not have good judgement. We used to save our debt carrying ability for emergencies, like world wide conflicts. Now we have spent any reserve any sane person would think we might have had, as well as the potential affluence of generations to come.

Inflation is the worst tax on the poor. I have been poor and I speak from experience.

What I really despise is hypocrisy. Personal sacrifice and character seem to be sucked out of every person who enters the DC political arena.

When we debate which party is the lesser of two evils, and we understand that the real problem is the two party system itself and the fact that people today seem to think a lie that benefits you is a matter of convenience and not a matter of selling your soul to whatever particular master you wish to sell it to, then you will receive the rewards for which you have sown the seeds of your own destruction.

We should outlaw political parties and make our elected officials actually run on their own beliefs and credentials.

It really pisses me off the be responsible, save and sacrifice, do the right thing, and then watch those morons in DC spend all of my savings and sacrifices as stupidly as a junkie on the curb, looking for his next fix.

regards
Gary

[pstrbrc]

OK, I'm one of the new ones here, and I guess that I kind of expect sincerely held differing opinions that result in name-calling, disparaging put-downs, or at least snide asides. It's the nature of the web. If someone needs to vent about what's wrong with the world, typing it here beats p#$$ing off the significant other. So, the way I look at it, the web is therapy for a lot of us.
Now, you wanna enter a conversation the REALLY gets blood boiling? Anybody for religion???
(That thar was an attempt at HUMOR. OK?)

[VetteOwner]

lol 2 words about religion that i can say can nark off people for a loooog time...if you ask for my opinion/view of it all i will tell in great detail but i respect other peoples belifs ( sometimes i just like hearing about the different religions) hence i usually wont go willy nilly blurting it out.

RIDE: the CCR song Fortunite Son comes to mind vividly as you talk about nam...

Some folks are born to wave the flag,
Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
Ooh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no senator's son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Yeah!

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman comes to the door,
Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no millionaire's son, no.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer More! more! more! yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no military son, son.
It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't no fortunate one, one.
It ain't me, it ain't me, I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,

[R.I.D.E.]

Pstrbrc;

Some people are nasty when they get drunk. Some people are just a happy drunk.

I understand your statement about venting on the web, to those you will probably never see in person.

It's much like the happy and nasty drunks.

I always liked my old saying. Since I am old I can claim an old saying.

Life is like walking through a plowed field. You can step from peak to peak or you can step from rut to rut.

The choice is yours in this life. Do you choose to step from one misery to another misery or do you choose the inspirational peaks as to where you place your energy next.

The choice is yours, but it's not your choice to drag me down into the rut with you.

Vette Owner:

I have seen CCR many times. Partied some with Cactus, met the members of ZZtop and sat in the car that is on the cover of their album.
Sat in an old ex barn nightclub in Houston 5 feet from Stevie Ray Vaughan as a guest of one of his personal friends, who worked as a service writer for Intercontinental Motors, the Benz dealer just north of Houston.

One of my favorites is Kristofferson's work.

Back on topic:

Intolerance for another human beings personal beliefs and religious viewpoints is a reflection on yourself, like the Happy-mean drunk analogy. I know more about a person if we get drunk together than I would ever learn otherwise.

Sadly I never drink much anymore .

Don't argue with women. My father thinks God is a female. Every woman alive today is part of a never (so far) ending chain of living beings from the beginning of time.

Men are just a bag of seeds.

While it may be necessary for the moderators to change policy for any reason they deem fit, I think it's more the nature of people, that is the problem, and the only way that will change is for people to chase their dreams, live their lives with a positive outlook, and try very very hard to love their neighbors, even when their neighbors seem to be the worst nightmare on the planet.

Mine aren't because I ain't sticking my foot there!

regards
Gary

[bowtieguy]

Gary,

fantastic and wise words. in regard to peaks and ruts: we all make mistakes(in the ruts), and i believe it to be one of life's greatest experiences to be there WITH someone who is there for support. and having someone for yourself is always good of course.

i would be honored to JUST sit and listen to you and your father converse w/ my dad. he was born in 1932, and passed about this time last year. oh, what you all could talk about...

VetteOwner,

great song, great group! one sad note about vietnam that i learned, like you, AFTER high school: more than 1 million south vietnamese were killed after we pulled out. that's not an endorsement, just an observation.

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

VetteOwner,

great song, great group! one sad note about vietnam that i learned, like you, AFTER high school: more than 1 million south vietnamese were killed after we pulled out. that's not an endorsement, just an observation.

see i didnt learn that till just now...couldnt have learned it in highschool because it puts us in a bad view