Quote:
Originally Posted by theholycow
(Condensed) Since you seem to be interested in logic instead of rhetoric, there's a couple things to consider...
1. Since when were fuel pickups at the top of the tank?
2. Actually, to succeed, they'd have to exceed merely "cost-effective", but more importantly you'd have to find a way to convince people to drive them. A few kooks like me driving them wouldn't make a difference.
3. Wind? Hydro? Are you talking about electric cars with those?
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REPLY:
1. Sort of irrelevant -Most engines fuel pick-up is near bottom of tank. After phase separation bottom of tank contains
only water & ethanol (no oil) - Few (conventional) engines will start, run or accelerate on only water and alcohol.
But if pick-up is still coming from upper, octane-deficient petroleum/oil layer, this now sub-octane fuel can cause damage (e.g. pistons).
Again, E85 makes more sense than E10 or E15, if you wish to support subsidized ethanol.
2. I am also a "kook" who is distraught by the high number of (gaz-guzzling) pick-up trucks here in GA, that are not used for business or carrying anything...Why don't they drive a small fuel-efficient auto instead? Maybe they don't care about America's future, or maybe they simply don't know the facts on our oil crisis/dependency.
Money talks, so POSSIBLY an added tax on non-fuel efficient vehicles would help or instead a refund/credit when you buy the most efficent (alternative fuel) vehicles? California did and it helped, and I believe Obama is considering this ($7000 credit for autos) right now.
I recycle everything, and avoid purchase of products packaged in plastic (also made from petroleum), ride my bike whenever possible...Keep my thermostat above 82 in summer and below 67 in winter, eat mostly natural un-packaged food...etc. etc.
No I'm not your "typical American consumer".
But what disturbs me the most is your average consumer's lack of basic knowledge on America's energy dependence (crisis). Oil comprises 10% of our GNP.
We've been talking about it since the 1970's, and instead of becoming less dependent, we've gone from 10 to 70% dependency on foreign oil imports.
I believed after 9/11, not a single penny should have been sent to Iraq/Iran (for gasoline). Obviously our past-President Bush did not agree with my views.
8 years went by and our petroleum dependency has only got worse.
So much for the subsidized E85 pumps and FFV's helping. Many Americans still don't even know what an "FFV" is!
VIEW Official Energy Statistics from the U.S. Government (current petroleum imports):
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html
Excerpts:
"three countries exported over 1.00 million barrels per
day of crude oil to the United States...Saudi Arabia (1.099 million barrels per day), Venezuela (0.960 million barrels per day)...Iraq (0.554 million barrels per day),..." etc.
Americans were disturbed that President Obama "shook hands" with Venuezula's leader Hugo Chavez, but how come they don't seem to mind purchasing almost a million barrels of oil/day from this country?
Very discouraging.
3. Becoming "Energy Independent" is far greater than the vehicles we drive.
Anything that can replace petroleum, should be considered. No source of energy is perfect, but it sure beats imported petroleum-based energy that pollutes our environment, and-
threatens our national security and domestic financial stability.
Did I mention the amount of oil that is necessary to distill and transport ethanol? Certainly important when you try to determine how ethanol "might" decrease our oil dependency. Or how about the amount of pollution created during the process of making and getting ethanol to the gas pump? (Again, E10/15 makes no sense).
In the meantime, approving increase of E10 to E15 is like putting a cheap bandaid on a deeply infected cut. ...
Very discouraging.
Somebody will profit from subsidized E15, and it won't be your average consumer or America. - The extra (un-approved) 15% ethanol will likely damage or decrease useful life of engines, decrease mpg & increase gas costs, cause increased occurence of (water) contaminated fuel, and will do little to nothing to decrease our petroleum consumption and pollution.
I still have confidence in the strength of America, all I am trying to do is make consumers aware of what's going on so they are better able to take action, for positive change.
Few Americans are even aware that this E15 waiver was submitted on 4/21/09, and the EPA only allotted 30 days for public objection.
Same thing happened when E10 waiver was submitted (around 1978- few knew, opposed or suggested restrictions). But everyday I listen to customers complain about e10.
After E15 is approved, we'll spend years talking about damage it causes engines not made to withstand this higher alcohol blend -
Ethanol is not new, it's been used as a fuel for over 100 years, (Ford Model T)but ethanol promoters want us to NOW completely ignore the damage/inconvenience that
may occur when used in conventional engines.
The irony of all this E15 discussion is my company certainly will sell more alcohol fuel test kits (profit) after E15 is approved. (Several states still do not require pump labeling, when ethanol is added).
ACE and the ethanol producers are not looking out for the best interests of America. Their E85 plan failed over past decade, now they're just looking for lame ways to make their businesses survive and profitable, (sell more ethanol) at the expense of all consumers.
Support farmers by purchasing real foods, ethanol has not really helped them that much anyway, and certainly won't if we switch to cellulosic ethanol.
Florida is now importing ethanol from S. America- So much for my past (benefit) that domestically produced ethanol benefits the U.S.
Now we're foolishly importing ethanol too!
Ethanol has become a complete scam, probably more due to greed than anything else.
Ethanol can safely power engines - But our government has done little to protect/educate consumers on this type of fuel.
- - Deadline to oppose E15 increase is 5/21/09. - -
More suggested reading, not major but interesting:
- Florida's 1st to build an underground ethanol pipeline:
http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/20...egins-service/
- Exxon, Chevron Face Ethanol Class Action Lawsuit:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4788002&EDATE=
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