Dammit!

[FrugalFloyd]

We owned a 2003 Focus. The 2001s and 2002s were lousy. Couple that with the '96-99? Thunderbird plastic intake manifold recall, and the Explorer tire failures, and Ford quality was living up to the Fix or Repair Daily acronym. Customers knew it, and shied away. Ford got the message and significantly improved Focus quality in 2003. There's nothing substantial to complain about in 2003-2007 Focus quality.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

But hating the 14 mpg DD is rooted in logic. Hating the car you hate is rooted in emotion.

This is a very important concern.

How much tolerance can logic buy? If you're unhappy with a vehicle but it makes a whole lot of sense to stick with it, that can work. If you absolutely hate a vehicle, whether you'll drive it (and fix it, etc) probably depends more on the individual.

I drove a vehicle I hated for 5 years because it seemed logical. I also beat it like the proverbial red-headed stepchild, and put the minimum possible effort/money into fixing/maintaining it...then I hated the car more when my own neglect and abuse came back to haunt me.

I hope I'm never going to do that again. I certainly am never going to recommend anyone else do it, and I stand squarely on the side of driving something you can at least tolerate calmly, if not enjoy.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I'm not exactly sure what the year of my sister's Focus is, but I will tell you this. My BIL isn't a technician. He's the manager of the service dept. He is rated as the #1 service manager in the region, and dealers are always trying to get him on their payroll. Also, I think lowered trucks with oversized rims are hideous looking.

What I find enjoyable to drive may not be what you like. As mentioned earlier, I am specially trained in the operation of large trucks and emergency vehicles. My truck handles extremely well, and I do not tolerate any discrepancies in its maintenance. You should have seen me on the driving range with the Step Van (fully loaded), diving in and out of the traffic cones. That was a lot of fun.

I think we must agree to disagree. I do need a truck for work, but I only work every other week. I rarely carry passengers, so I feel that the Harley was a good choice for ME (maybe not you) as a FE vehicle to use when I don't need to haul much. Since Wednesday night (when my work week ended) I've put about 140 miles on the Harley, and only about 6 on the truck. The Harley is getting at least 40 MPG, which is about 3x the mileage the truck is getting. The low fuel light just came on again, and I'm going to top it off on my way home tonight, so I'll have another tank under my belt.

We are all free to make choices. My choices aren't going to be the same as yours. If everyone made the exact same choices, the world would be a very boring place. My choice is to keep my truck because its paid for, runs extremely well, I enjoy driving it, and gets decent mileage for what it is. I choose to make the best of what I can with the truck, and push off all the miles I can onto the new bike. What do you have against the bike? Is it because its a Harley, and not a Ninja? Would you be happy with me driving a car that gets 30 MPG instead me me driving a bike that gets over 40? You speak of logic, but I find no logic in this.

You are free to own and drive as many Focus wagons with 5 speeds as you can possibly fit in your driveway. As long as you're happy, then more power to you. I love wagons, just not the Focus wagon. I learned to drive on a full size Pontiac Bonneville Safari wagon with 2 tone paint. and chrome dripping off of every corner. I loved it. This is a pic of me at my senior picnic in 1989 with "Big Red"



And here's me with one of my ambulances in the late 90's:

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I think lowered trucks with oversized rims are hideous looking.

I do too, though some tastefully lowered trucks have grown on me...and I've decided that if I get a compact pickup as a DD (that was an old plan before I started my Buick project) I'd lower it for the aerodynamic improvement.

[FrugalFloyd]

Some of us are slow learners . I kept that Chevy Astro until it was 23 years old, and had 170,000 miles on it. I hope I'll be the last person to tell Jay or anyone else what they should drive.

I had a girlfriend for 7 years. She was the sexiest gf ever - DD to DDD cups, and a 25" waist, but an airhead. She was also a gourmet cook. I fought logic for 7 years, breaking up 3-4 times/year, and always going back. To give you an example, I went to Israel, Switzerland, and Germany for 3 weeks, and when I got back, she accused me of breaking her car, which I hadn't driven for 3 weeks. I asked her how I could have broken her car. She said I drove it too hard the last time I drove it.

So, when I was with her, you could have logically told me how wrong we were for each other, and I'd have emotionally told you that logic be damned. A decade later, I can tell you I'm much happier now.

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

You can get a glass shop to replace the mirror glass for $15, and use the other $25 you'll save for down payment on your high FE replacement vehicle - or throw it away on your next 140 miles of driving.

Not only is the glass broken, but the mirror frame is broken as well. I can get replacement glass for $10, but I'll still have a wobbly mirror because the frame is broke.

I purchased an entire aftermarket mirror assembly for $40.

[FrugalFloyd]

Sorry. I couldn't tell the mirror frame was broken, also.

[Jim T.]

Originally Posted by *************

Just full of hate eh? Think his truck is any better looking? You know how I know you've got a bias? Because time and again I've seen two different people call the same vehicle "beautiful" or "ugly".. There are few vehicles that people universally agree are ugly and I know that Ford Focus wagon is not one of them. It's not "attractive" but neither are any of GM's offerings.. GM generally has the most uninspiring designs so if anything, that Ford Focus wagon fits right in with the rest of the GM stuff, even if it isn't made by GM.

Let's face it, the real reason you're calling a vehicle "ugly" is because you just flat out don't like it despite the fact that a pickup truck with a camper shell or an SUV is exactly that...a wagon. Most manufacturers in certain literature actually call them wagons because to call them anything else would be disingenuous. Have you ever seen a lowered SUV or pickup truck?
Tell me that this doesn't look like a wagon:


or this:http://image.sporttruck.com/f/918332...ed_tahoe_z.jpg

They're freaking wagons on a ladder frame and with a higher ride height. The primary reason why I don't like these vehicles is because most people drive them like cars when they're not, they're heavy and don't have bumpers that align with cars - making them deadly, and that they get poor mileage due to their ancient engine designs from the 1960s (2vlv, OHV).

What a lot of people don't seem to get is that their SUVs are glorified wagons.. That's it! So to get snooty over people who drive wagons versus your gashog SUV or pickup truck with a camper shell makes you a damned hypocrite. I know you love your truck because it projects the image of a "tough guy" but you're obviously over compensating for something if you're incapable of seeing the value of a "smaller", more efficient vehicle. Real tough guys don't buy cars to project an image, but buy them because they serve a practical function. Again, nobody is advocating the purchase of a Prius to tow a horse trailer or to pickup 10 illegals at Home Depot to work at a job site.. All I'm advocating is being reasonable, and there is nothing unreasonable about driving a car based wagon when it's certainly up to the task.

Jay, as for the whole "rattling thing"... Is that the only reason why you wouldn't buy the original Focus? What year Focus did you drive? "1st Generation" of Focus doesn't actually specify anything at all considering that the 1st generation of Focus spanned from 2000-2007... Also I'm not going to take the "word" of a technician at a dealership considering I know techs at various dealerships who all call various vehicles "crap" when they're not...

I'm biased and don't like wagons?
Look at my garage, I own a 5 door hatch or wagon if you prefer!
Game over for you my friend.
all your arguements are baseless at this point.

Jim

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Jim T.

I'm biased and don't like wagons?
Look at my garage, I own a 5 door hatch or wagon if you prefer!
Game over for you my friend.
all your arguements are baseless at this point.

Jim

Good point, however the hate still feels unfounded.. Why hate a vehicle you barely know? Something has polarized you to be full of hate and while I can't pinpoint why, it doesn't make it any less rational..

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I'm not exactly sure what the year of my sister's Focus is, but I will tell you this. My BIL isn't a technician. He's the manager of the service dept. He is rated as the #1 service manager in the region, and dealers are always trying to get him on their payroll. Also, I think lowered trucks with oversized rims are hideous looking.

The only way to review a car is to either know someone who owns a car (like your sister, though she could own one of the noisy ones) or to try it out for your self. When I bought my civic, all I had to go by was some people's perspective on the vehicle, what I vaguely remember my friend who used to own a 1999 model year one and test driving one out for myself..

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

What I find enjoyable to drive may not be what you like. As mentioned earlier, I am specially trained in the operation of large trucks and emergency vehicles. My truck handles extremely well, and I do not tolerate any discrepancies in its maintenance. You should have seen me on the driving range with the Step Van (fully loaded), diving in and out of the traffic cones. That was a lot of fun.

I think we must agree to disagree. I do need a truck for work, but I only work every other week.

We actually don't know that because you haven't told use what you haul and how a station wagon wouldn't be suitable for the job. It's like saying that you must have a suburban just because you have 3 children...

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I rarely carry passengers, so I feel that the Harley was a good choice for ME (maybe not you) as a FE vehicle to use when I don't need to haul much. Since Wednesday night (when my work week ended) I've put about 140 miles on the Harley, and only about 6 on the truck. The Harley is getting at least 40 MPG, which is about 3x the mileage the truck is getting. The low fuel light just came on again, and I'm going to top it off on my way home tonight, so I'll have another tank under my belt.

We are all free to make choices. My choices aren't going to be the same as yours. If everyone made the exact same choices, the world would be a very boring place. My choice is to keep my truck because its paid for, runs extremely well, I enjoy driving it, and gets decent mileage for what it is. I choose to make the best of what I can with the truck, and push off all the miles I can onto the new bike. What do you have against the bike? Is it because its a Harley, and not a Ninja? Would you be happy with me driving a car that gets 30 MPG instead me me driving a bike that gets over 40? You speak of logic, but I find no logic in this.

Because I know you're not going to be riding the bike the majority of the time and then there is also the possibility that on the whole, you'll be using more fuel by riding your bike more often (ride cause it's "fun") than if you simply had a wagon that you use for work.. I'm not saying you're not allowed to have a fun vehicle but to use your fun vehicle to justify you going to work in your 13mpg truck which could very well be unnecessary just isn't right.. Again, I never said you'd have to get rid of your truck, but considering that you keep mentioning it seems to me that you willing admit that you drive your truck because you like it for the sake of liking it, but then hide behind the defense of "needing it for work" when it comes time for things to go on the chopping block.

It just makes more sense that you would "enjoy rusty" as a truck for when you feel like or actually need a truck and then just use a wagon for work related purposes and not just have two trucks...

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

You are free to own and drive as many Focus wagons with 5 speeds as you can possibly fit in your driveway. As long as you're happy, then more power to you. I love wagons, just not the Focus wagon. I learned to drive on a full size Pontiac Bonneville Safari wagon with 2 tone paint. and chrome dripping off of every corner. I loved it. This is a pic of me at my senior picnic in 1989 with "Big Red"

Whatever... look if you don't want the Focus wagon, at least get an 1988+ Volvo 240 Wagon with a stick shift.. It's rated at 19 city 26 highway on the new cycle and I'm sure you could apply your driving methods to this vehicle to improve your mileage further.. While it's too bad you've already gotten it into your head that the Focus is garbage (your sister's car doesn't count!), the 240 wagon would be a major step up from your truck.

If you drive 15K miles a year in the Volvo 240 wagon, @ $3 a gallon, you'd be spending $2045 a year on gas opposed to $1731 in a 2006 Focus Wagon or $3214 in your current truck.. It's too bad to think of these numbers in terms of 1 year because you're obviously going to own the vehicle longer than for a single year and that money does add up.. This also doesn't take into account the event of gas prices going up again..