Dammit!

[Wyldesoul]

imjustplayin,

I AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE AGAINST THE FACT THAT A SMALL CAR IS OFTEN A VERY LOGICAL CHOICE!

What I am trying to argue against is the fact that I have seen three different people LEAVE THE FORUM because they were harassed over the fact that they didn't want to get rid of their truck, they wanted to make it better.

SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT A SMALL CAR! Simple as that! Help them get better with what they do have, rather than driving them away, or otherwise being a complete jerk to them!

It's not just this thread, it's a major problem with this whole forum.

Basically let me sum it up in one sentance:


DON'T HARASS PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST ASKING FOR HELP.




And at least acknowledge that Jay's new daily commuter likely gets a good 50% better MPG than yours?


Some people don't want a car. Deal with it and help them with what they have.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

And again, what about the bike I just bought that is EPA rated for 50 MPG highway??? Does that count for nothing? Must I purchase a passenger vehicle when I rarely have passengers? I don't know what my actual mileage is on the bike yet, because I've been riding it for about a week now, and the fuel gauge shows that I still have 1/2 a tank of fuel. I hope to have my first fuel log entry posted by the end of the weekend.

Not really because a motorcycle is more impractical than a car and if you need a truck for work (very very vague) then most of the time you're going to be taking the truck. What you're essentially saying is use the truck 80% of the time motorcycle 20% of the time (generous) and I'm suggesting using a Wagon 80% of the time, truck for the rest of the times where the wagon isn't enough. You never specified your cargo or what you're doing, just that it's for work - for all I know you're a paper boy. I mean sure you could use the motorcycle for as much of the time as possible, the "wagon" as much of the time as possible and then the truck for as little of the time as possible, however I can't strongly recommend a motorcycle especially considering you mentioning treacherous weather.

Also, I'm really surprised you keep mentioning passengers and how you have no need for a car that seats people you're never going to be carrying around. Are you incapable of seeing past a passenger car as a vehicle that carries people? What a lot of people who want an economical work vehicle do is they either fold down the seats (easy) which results in a "bed" to store stuff on or they go a step further and remove the rear seats altogether. Just open the tailgate of your truck, look inside, it's a bare bed with a camper shell. Now add some carpet, seats, replace the shell with metal and glass and you've got a Chevrolet Suburban/maybe Tahoe.. (depends on length). Now imagine lowering this vehicle and shortening it a bit, replace structure with unibody instead of body on frame, replace with a smaller engine - now you've got a Focus Wagon.. Strip out the rear seats and carpet, now what do you have? A practical work vehicle...that's what! Again, I have no idea what you do or what you haul, for all I know you're a paper boy or a guy who delivers over 1500lbs of concrete to various clients..


Also, just keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to do anything, but if you're going to attempt to justify your vehicle choices and driving habits, at least have a decent excuse for it. There are obviously some things cars just cannot feasibly do no matter how many modifications you make and that's ok but it's in your own best interest to evaluate your situation and see if things can be improved upon, I know I did..

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Biffmeistro

imjustplayin,

I AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE AGAINST THE FACT THAT A SMALL CAR IS OFTEN A VERY LOGICAL CHOICE!

What I am trying to argue against is the fact that I have seen three different people LEAVE THE FORUM because they were harassed over the fact that they didn't want to get rid of their truck, they wanted to make it better.

SOME PEOPLE DON'T WANT A SMALL CAR! Simple as that! Help them get better with what they do have, rather than driving them away, or otherwise being a complete jerk to them!

It's not just this thread, it's a major problem with this whole forum.

Basically let me sum it up in one sentance:


DON'T HARASS PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST ASKING FOR HELP.




And at least acknowledge that Jay's new daily commuter likely gets a good 50% better MPG than yours?


Some people don't want a car. Deal with it and help them with what they have.

I don't know who left this forum, but it's possible those people were newbies who had unrealistic expectations for their vehicles and consequently left the forum. Also I never suggested "getting rid of his truck" but to instead supplement it with a car. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, I'm merely pointing out the flaws in logic and how it's possible the vehicle choice is more about not wanting to change than about actual practicality.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I've got nothing against wagons, I learned to drive on a 1980 Pontiac Bonneville Safari. I loved it. When I become independently wealthy one of the cars I'd like to have in my garage is an early 70's GM full size wagon. Probably a Vista Cruiser or Grand Safari.

Currently I leave my Buick parked at work, but I can switch the Buick and the truck, leaving the truck parked at work so I can commute with the bike, and have the truck available at work when needed. As mentioned earlier though, even if the truck is required, it is only 2 miles away.

For a while I was entertaining the idea of purchasing an old diesel Volvo 240 with a 5 speed. While it would be an interesting experiment, finding 240 wagons with 5 speeds in decent condition here in the states is hard. (and at a decent price, even harder!) Most of the wagons were shipped to the US with automatics.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I've got nothing against wagons, I learned to drive on a 1980 Pontiac Bonneville Safari. I loved it. When I become independently wealthy one of the cars I'd like to have in my garage is an early 70's GM full size wagon. Probably a Vista Cruiser or Grand Safari.

Currently I leave my Buick parked at work, but I can switch the Buick and the truck, leaving the truck parked at work so I can commute with the bike, and have the truck available at work when needed. As mentioned earlier though, even if the truck is required, it is only 2 miles away.

For a while I was entertaining the idea of purchasing an old diesel Volvo 240 with a 5 speed. While it would be an interesting experiment, finding 240 wagons with 5 speeds in decent condition here in the states is hard. (and at a decent price, even harder!) Most of the wagons were shipped to the US with automatics.

Well a Ford Focus Wagon has 96 ft3 of passenger area (rear seats can be folded down or removed) and 36 ft3 of cargo area (does not include folding or removing rear seats), a total of 132 ft3. The Volvo 240 Wagon (which I'm quite familiar with btw) has 89 ft3 of passenger area and 41 ft3 of cargo area, for a total of 130 ft3. So technically, the Focus wagon is slightly bigger. The Focus wagon can be had in automatic and manual variants with the M/T versions getting better mileage.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by *************

I don't know who left this forum, but it's possible those people were newbies who had unrealistic expectations for their vehicles and consequently left the forum.

It happens all the time, but more on other FE forums than here...and it not happening is one of our strengths. A newbie shows up, asks how to incrementally improve FE on a SUV/truck, and is run off by people insisting on changing to a more efficient vehicle. We can only assume that some never sign up because they see threads like this.

We get the point. A more efficient vehicle is a viable and extremely effective option. It's easily observed and proven. It's also not a requirement.

Jay bought the most efficient vehicle that he's willing to have, and may only drive it 20% of the time as you say. The rest of the time, it's best to be supportive and help him improve FE in whatever he DOES choose to drive.

We all make our choices. I don't know what FE techniques/strategies you use, but I bet there's some I use and you don't. I'm 100% sure of the safety and efficacy of the ones I use, but if they're not right for you I'm not going to try to henpeck you into using them.

[Wyldesoul]

Originally Posted by *************

Well a Ford Focus Wagon has 96 ft3 of passenger area (rear seats can be folded down or removed) and 36 ft3 of cargo area (does not include folding or removing rear seats), a total of 132 ft3. The Volvo 240 Wagon (which I'm quite familiar with btw) has 89 ft3 of passenger area and 41 ft3 of cargo area, for a total of 130 ft3. So technically, the Focus wagon is slightly bigger. The Focus wagon can be had in automatic and manual variants with the M/T versions getting better mileage.

Did you even read what he said?

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

1. Specifically, dad's Focus is a 2nd generation 5 speed in the highest trim level available. I've driven several Focuses, however I hate the 1st generation models, auto or manual. The Focus wagon was only available on the 1st generation models.

Enough with the focus. Stop being a broken record already.



Some people are here to improve what they have, and do not want to get something new. No amount of logical argument, or number crunching, or anything will convince them, and any additional attempts just comes off as harassing.

Deal with that fact, and help them improve what they have already.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Biffmeistro

Deal with that fact, and help them improve what they have already.

Are you really that small minded? The guy drives a heavy *** truck with older engine technology, IN THE CITY. There is nothing feasible to be done except to replace the vehicle as this guy is obviously not going to start removing parts and replacing them with lighter parts nor replace the engine and transmission with a more efficient drivetrain. The only logical thing left is to put a taller axle ratio in the rear. Somehow, the idea of driving a vehicle that gets 14mpg just doesn't sit well with me and really shouldn't sit well with him either.

I just find it odd that the OP would find driving a Volvo 240 to be acceptable yet to drive the first generation Focus would be unacceptable. The OP hasn't quite defined what is wrong with the first Generation focus and while I can't blame him for not liking the vehicle, not liking this vehicle does start to pare off his options.

[Jay2TheRescue]

HC is right. The reason I joined this forum, as opposed to others are simple.

1. First off, Someone who was a moderator with me at another site, and a very good longtime friend personally recommended the site.

2. When I visited I saw other active members with similar vehicles to mine who were willing to spend time with me answering my questions.

After I joined, and participated for a while I was actually considering leaving the site because of the flame wars and SPAM were getting pretty bad. I decided to stay when the site owner posted that he needed volunteers to be moderators. I figured I could just leave, or I could help make this site better for everyone. I feel my efforts behind the scenes here help all members save energy.

I may use more fuel by my vehicle choices, but I never let the vehicles sit and idle, or "warm up". When I see a light ahead turn red, I take my foot off the throttle, and let it coast to the light. I always watch my speed, and keep my vehicles in top running condition. At my best I was able to achieve 16 MPG city (which my truck is rated 16 highway) but a few months after doing that I started having transmission problems in the truck, and I was unsure if my extreme hypermiling techniques caused the demise of my torque converter, or if it was coincidental. After paying over $1,000 to have my transmission repaired I scaled back my hypermiling efforts in the truck. I still feel I do pretty good, beating the EPA combined rating by over 8% in short trip city driving.

Even though I spend more energy in motor vehicle fuel, I save energy elsewhere. In my home almost all of the light fixtures and lamps have compact fluorescent bulbs installed. The air conditioner is only run when outside temps exceed 95, and the thermostat is set on 80. We have a large convection toaster oven that we do our small baking in, rather than heating up the huge oven just to make a small batch of muffins or cookies.

At work I have all the computers set to shut off the monitors after 5 minutes of inactivity, and they go to sleep after 30 minutes. I installed a heat recovery system to take waste heat from my boiler, to heat the hot water for our shirt laundry. There is no heat or a/c because there is no efficient way to do either of those in a dry cleaning plant. To reduce the amount of paper products we use, I special order receipt paper that is thinner than normal receipt paper, and I also installed motion sensor towel dispensers, and set the towel dispenser to only dispense one towel every 5 seconds. I order plastic bags that are thinner, and use less plastic than most dry cleaners use. I am now looking into purchasing biodegradable plastic bags as the price on them is coming into the range where it can be done affordably.

EDIT:

I'd like to note, that as a moderator I take a lot more heat than normal members. If I spotted another member being targeted like I am in this thread the offender would have received a warning long ago.

@ HC - Threads like this do not deter new members from joining because the off topic section is not visible to non-members. However, it is entirely possible that people join, and then never post because of threads like this.

[imzjustplayin]

I'm not trying to criticize your efforts to conserve but to me, unless there is really a need for that truck to be your primary driver, some need that can't be fulfilled by any other vehicle, I just can't believe that driving that vehicle makes any sense. The only thing I can really do is create a laundry list of vehicles that get over 20mpg and you can obviously take it or leave it.. I also find it odd that you could complain about the drivability of the first generation Ford Focus when you yourself drive a Sierra pickup which isn't exactly all that great in itself.