Dammit!

[Jay2TheRescue]

Thanks HC for your recommendation on checking Ebay. On Car-part.com a local yard has a used one for $100. On Ebay I bought a new aftermarket one for $40.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by *************

I've sat in a LOT of pickups and SUVs, in the front and back, extended cab, dual cab, regular cab etc. The funny thing about these vehicles is that their owners think that an extended cab pickup or a compact SUV is somehow "bigger" in terms of interior room than any car save for the notorious land yachts like the Caprice or Lincoln Town car.

I haven't sat in the back seat of my GMC very much, but I have test-sat, comparing to my VW (a car designed mainly for European use where it is a mid-size family car rather than a small economy car). I'm not making any extraordinary claim. It's about the same, not cavernous. I have spent a few hours in the back seat of the VW and was quite comfortable there, so with it being about the same I expect I'd be just as comfortable.

I know for sure that if I pull my seat up as close to the pedals and steering wheel in the GMC as I do in the VW, I can fit rather large boxes on the floor between the front seat and back seat.

I mostly rely on reports from others. I'm told that it's as good as any other back seat; not 'somehow "bigger"', but not smaller either. It does have height advantages, with the seat higher (so more legroom, offering that better angle which doesn't require legs to be put forward) and the ceiling higher...and I can store stuff underneath it.

However you slice it, it is by no means "cramped"; 4 people are plenty comfortable, 5 people are as comfortable in as in my VW, and 6 can legally be in it (but the front seat occupants are then as crowded as the back seat).

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

Everyone does realize my commute is about 2 miles, right? If I was driving 30 or 40 miles I might have to make some changes in my choice of vehicles. My commute is all neighborhood streets until the last block & 1/2. That means the bulk of my route to work is low priority to be cleared in bad weather. The max speed limit (until the last block and 1/2) is 35. Rear legroom in my truck is not an issue as I rarely have more than 1 passenger. When I do take trips though, people fight over who gets the back seat, because the person in the back seat usually lays down and takes a nap.

Oh... but then what about this:

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I bought the truck 5 years ago for $13,000 and have put about 65,000 miles on it since then.

???
Also, assuming that you are indeed religious about keeping up with your gas log on that truck, since June 2008 you've put on 17,297.65 miles, burned 1241.748 gallons of fuel, and spent $3094.748. So over 2 years, you've spent $3100 on fuel, but that's only over 17K miles, not 65K like you've mentioned. If you averaged 14mpg for the time you?ve owned that truck, then that would mean you?ve burned 4643 gallons of fuel, at a variable cost. You?re obviously going to be driving this truck for a long while so it?s not like as if you wouldn?t benefit from saving money on fuel.

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I feel I do pretty good with this truck. If you compare my truck, "The Beast" to my roommate's truck, "The Gurly Truk" you will see that I do far better than she does with a compact truck (and we have similar commutes - she works about 3 miles away)

One of the reasons I came to this site to begin with was because there was support for anyone who wanted to save fuel, no matter what they drove. Other fuel economy sites I had visited pretty much had the attitude that unless you were driving a Vx or a Prius you were flamed.

Also, I now own a vehicle that is rated 50 MPG highway. I'm hoping to see how well I can do with it. I have been riding my bike to work on days that I didn't anticipate needing the big truck, and even if I do need the truck, its only 2 miles away.

Nobody is saying, or asking you to do anything of the sort. The fact that you bring up the highest mileage vehicles says to me that you're being overly defensive. I never mentioned a VX or a Prius, I mentioned a cheap economy car which could be any number of cars out there. **** you could even get an older non economy car with a stick shift and still save a substantial amount of $ and gasoline. This is gassavers.org, if you really wanted to save gas, you'd find a vehicle that would allow you to balance a car you want to drive, purchase price, fuel savings and other associated fees while still allowing you to come out ahead.

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

For me, if I don't enjoy driving a vehicle, I won't drive it (as I have other vehicle choices in the driveway). Comfort, utility, and that subjective quality of driving pleasure all come into play. I absolutely love driving my Buick, but I limit trips in that vehicle because other vehicles I own get better mileage. I love driving my truck, its comfortable, and provides all the utility I need for most days, and I can beat the combined EPA rating driving short trip city. I have a 1 ton van that we use for heavy hauling, and that vehicle goes about 500 miles/yr. My 86 Chevy goes less than 500 miles/yr as well. I always try to choose the best vehicle for any given task before I leave the house, and that in itself saves fuel. Some people out there would drive the 1 ton van as a daily driver to save the expense and hassle of owning multiple vehicles.

Nobody says that you can't enjoy what you drive but the fact that you haven't even attempted to get a real economy vehicle puts into question your efforts to save fuel. Also I do agree with the notion that someone should always use the right tool for the job which is why I believe having an economical car makes sense. Also an economical car doesn't automatically mean a car that "isn't fun".

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I do not have unlimited space to park vehicles. Already we have 4 vehicles parked at the house, (not counting the bike in the garage). The neighborhood is mostly ranch houses on 1/4 acre lots built in the early 70's. I can't park 10 cars in my driveway like my parents can. Since this economy car won't be a replacement, but an additional vehicle, it would have to be able to save enough $ in gas to pay for its insurance, property taxes, and registration costs to break even (and that doesn't even take into account the cost of the vehicle).

But then what about this?

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

The only additional vehicle I see coming to my driveway in the foreseeable future is my late grandfather's car. (2006 Grand Marquis) When he died the car didn't even have 2,500 miles. At this point the car has about 10,000 miles on it. We leave it parked in his garage, and the family drives it when we visit in Florida. AFAIK I'm the only family member interested in his car.

It seems like to me you can and will find a way to make room for a vehicle that you want but won?t for a vehicle you don?t want. I know that sounds like a no brainer but it is also the crux of the issue. I mean this is a non issue depending on how you look at it but if you were really serious about saving fuel, your most fuel efficient vehicle wouldn't be something that gets 14mpg.. To me, it makes no sense to make a "serious effort" (assuming that's true) to save fuel in a 14mpg vehicle when you could just go out and buy a vehicle that is wholly more efficient, would still save you money and that you like to drive.

[Wyldesoul]

Look! Lay off him! Not everyone wants a tiny car!

He's made it quite clear that he has considered his options, and has decided he doesn't want an econobox!

So stop being a jerk!


Your type is what gives any FE site a bad name.




SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE DRIVING SMALL CARS!!



BE HAPPY THAT THEY WANT TO IMPROVE THE FE ON THEIR BIG CARS!









I am SO VERY SICK AND TIRED that every single time anyone comes onto this site with anything but a subcompact econobox, they get flamed away!

I have personally seen three seperate threads of someone joining this site to see how to extract a few more MPG from their truck/suv, and then leaving the site because nobody will lay off their back that they don't drive a subcompact.




So shut up! Seriously! This isn't the subject of this conversation. It is quite clear that Jay DOES NOT WANT a subcompact! You're NOT going to convince him by dragging out this subject for the umpteenth time!


STOP BEING A JERK!




/rant

[bowtieguy]

point well taken...seems like there's a lot of disrespecting going on here lately. could be the economy or the heat.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Biffmeistro

Look! Lay off him! Not everyone wants a tiny car!

He's made it quite clear that he has considered his options, and has decided he doesn't want an econobox!

So stop being a jerk!


Your type is what gives any FE site a bad name.




SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE DRIVING SMALL CARS!!



BE HAPPY THAT THEY WANT TO IMPROVE THE FE ON THEIR BIG CARS!









I am SO VERY SICK AND TIRED that every single time anyone comes onto this site with anything but a subcompact econobox, they get flamed away!

I have personally seen three seperate threads of someone joining this site to see how to extract a few more MPG from their truck/suv, and then leaving the site because nobody will lay off their back that they don't drive a subcompact.




So shut up! Seriously! This isn't the subject of this conversation. It is quite clear that Jay DOES NOT WANT a subcompact! You're NOT going to convince him by dragging out this subject for the umpteenth time!


STOP BEING A JERK!




/rant

I'm going to preface this post by stating that I know I'm not speaking to jay but to the poster "Biffmeistro".

Wah wah wah small cars blah blah blah.. How many times do you have to say small cars? Small cars, small cars, small cars, small cars small cars! Again, you people (I'm being very specific) always assume that because I'm harping on someone for their choice of vehicle for a given task that I'm automagically suggesting the purchase of a Geo Metro. Also, like I said, just because the vehicle is physically smaller and shorter in stature, it doesn't make it a "small vehicle" in terms of volume.. Meaning that you can carry a bunch of crap just fine with you. Nobody is making the suggestion to drive a Geo Metro in place of a Ford Econovan...Unfortunately, people with egos or self image issues tend to perceive it that way when discussing the lunacy of driving a 14mpg vehicle to pickup a couple of beers at the convenience store. Way to jump to an extreme! How dare I suggest being modest and conservative or even logical! Am I really to believe that driving a truck conservatively to achieve a piddly improvement in fuel economy is more fun than thrashing an already efficient vehicle? Oh and don't even attempt to reference that top gear episode with the Prius because I want to hear nothing of it!

Just to let you know, a Ford Focus wagon has 36ft^3 of cargo space WITHOUT folding down the rear passenger seats, but when you fold down the passenger seats, you get something that rivals the same volume as a Silverado short bed with a campershell. Again, I don't know what the hell you are talking about when you say "small cars". There is a segment of the population who feel that it is an affront to their livelihoods or their masculinity to point out that what they drive is stupid for the mere fact that there are other vehicles that can accomplish the same tasks with the same efficiency, comfort, etc. The argument that he likes his truck b/c it's comfortable is false, I mean it probably is comfortable but there is nothing inherently special about the vehicle and it can be accomplished with a more efficient vehicle.

Look, I think people should do what makes sense, and driving a vehicle because you are insecure about yourself or because you want to have a particular image is idiotic. I never suggested the OP drive a Prius (though, from what limited information I know, it probably would suffice), I'm merely pointing out that if circumstances allow, getting a car with acceptable mileage (anything above 25mpg!!) would make a hell of a lot more sense and would pay for itself quite quickly. I mostly found it odd that someone would be a member of this site for so long yet not have come to that same conclusion. To have you people defend this like as if it's a birthright says to me there is some underlying issue that I've uncovered... Why am I not surprised?

If you can't wrap your head around the lunacy of this (probably because it has been the norm for so long), think of it in terms like this. Would you bring your two, normal sized children to school 5 miles away in a Recreational Vehicle instead of a car? Would you buy 100lbs of beef and eat 2 lbs of it, then take the "left overs" and throw it in the trash? Or, would you just buy what you're going to eat? I think the answers here are pretty obvious but the reason why the lunacy of this is going over your head is because you go by what is the norm and not what makes sense... A lot of people apparently use their vehicle as a way of representing who they are. In the case of a truck, something about being "tough" or "masculine" or some other nonsense.

Finally, don't forget that this guy just so happened to mention that the only car he liked was a Ford Focus Manual. This is fine as the Ford Focus wagon comes in M/T, so technically he could just get that vehicle.. Of course, he can try out other vehicles but to say that what he currently drives meets his needs and that there isn't a better alternative to that vehicle is just asinine.

[Wyldesoul]

So? I am fully aware that in most possible situations, it is in someone's best interest to on a small car of some form, rather than a huge beast, and in most situations, a small car truly is beneficial to someone over a large car, and I am not arguing that!

What I am arguing, and what riles me up, and what is just a jerk move to do, is to completely attack people because they don't have one, or don't want one.

Make your argument, and if it is clear that they don't want to get a small car, think for once.

Rather than driving them away to drive their suv/truck in a wasteful way...


MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASSIST THEM IN MAKING THEIR SUV/TRUCK MORE FUEL EFFICIENT!


Isn't that a novel idea?

Rather than be an absolute jerk and drive the already overdone point into the grave, help them!

[Jay2TheRescue]

We can argue back and forth, so I will just make these 2 points, then I'm ready to let this thread die.

1. Specifically, dad's Focus is a 2nd generation 5 speed in the highest trim level available. I've driven several Focuses, however I hate the 1st generation models, auto or manual. The Focus wagon was only available on the 1st generation models.

2. How come there's no consideration given for last week's vehicle purchase? I will try to push as much mileage on the bike as possible. Now I don't think I'll be able to get 80 MPG in it like some do with Ninjas, but it is rated for 44 MPG city/50 MPG highway, and I'm going to try my best to top that. If I can take the bike whenever possible, and only take the truck in inclement weather, and days I need to haul stuff I will save a significant amount of fuel.

I made careful choices in selecting the bike to try and get the best mileage out of it. In 2004 Harley put fuel injection in the Dyna series. In 2006 Harley replaced the 5 speed transmission with a 6 speed. Being a 2006 model, my bike has fuel injection and a 6 speed transmission. The fact that I now own a vehicle that gets 50 MPG highway seems to be largely ignored in this conversation.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Biffmeistro

So? I am fully aware that in most possible situations, it is in someone's best interest to on a small car of some form, rather than a huge beast, and in most situations, a small car truly is beneficial to someone over a large car, and I am not arguing that!

What I am arguing, and what riles me up, and what is just a jerk move to do, is to completely attack people because they don't have one, or don't want one.

Make your argument, and if it is clear that they don't want to get a small car, think for once.

Rather than driving them away to drive their suv/truck in a wasteful way...


MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASSIST THEM IN MAKING THEIR SUV/TRUCK MORE FUEL EFFICIENT!


Isn't that a novel idea?

Rather than be an absolute jerk and drive the already overdone point into the grave, help them!

Hmm, for a while I thought it was worthwhile to do what you've suggested, but then I realized more can be gained by going with a more efficient vehicle overall. Why spend even $1000 on a vehicle to make it more efficient when you can just take that money and use it towards the purchase of a more efficient vehicle? There is this thing called diminishing returns and while a lot can be gained with a truck, the amount of money spent could be put towards a vehicle that gets double the mileage.

Let me give you an example.. There is a guy who owns a '92 Civic that makes 104hp. He likes his car but he wants more powa cause he wants to embrace the ricer in himself. I can either help him boost his car to 200hp at the tune of several thousand dollars or I can just point him to an 80s/90s camaro which while a ****box that has been ragged on, will give him a far better HP/$ than tuning his civic. There are obviously things to like about the civic over the camaro but to just buy a camaro would give him the power he is looking for at a very low price point.

Now, this isn't always true.. For example in the case of my Honda Civic, I want to get Prius Mileage. Some might suggest getting an older Insight or just give up and get the Prius. However I have actual reasons for not wanting either of those vehicles which is why I'd prefer sticking with my 4 door Civic. In my situation, it's actually more cost effective to spend $1000 on top of my $3,500 vehicle to get Prius mileage than to spend $10,000+ on a hybrid that gives me the mileage I want. My upgrades may take awhile to pay for themselves but I'm ok with that since I'm forward looking and hope to keep the vehicle for a long while.

You need to keep in mind that he clearly has reached a plateau as he has been getting 14mpg for quite a while. Any other effort he expends really should be towards getting a more efficient vehicle. This isn't necessarily like a case of a trucking company with semi-trucks only getting 8mpg and trying to improve upon that mileage but is more of a case where the OP's desire to not change things because he's comfortable with the way things are.

A Ford Focus Wagon at 28mpg w/5sp over 100K miles at $3 a gallon gasoline will cost $10,714 to drive. The OP's truck at 14mpg over 100K miles at $3 a gallon will cost $21,429. However, if what the OP says is true, that he should be getting far worse mileage than he is but thanks to his efforts it's much higher, then if he got that Ford Focus Wagon, he would not be getting 28mpg but something higher.

Just keep in mind that the only reason gasoline is cheap is due to the depressed economy. If the economy ever picks up, you can be assured gasoline is going to be more expensive than it currently is.

[Jay2TheRescue]

And again, what about the bike I just bought that is EPA rated for 50 MPG highway??? Does that count for nothing? Must I purchase a passenger vehicle when I rarely have passengers? I don't know what my actual mileage is on the bike yet, because I've been riding it for about a week now, and the fuel gauge shows that I still have 1/2 a tank of fuel. I hope to have my first fuel log entry posted by the end of the weekend.