Dammit!

[imzjustplayin]

What about a Saturn or Ford Focus wagon? The Saturn wagon is fairly decently sized, with the seats down, is about the size of a Toyota Tacoma with a camper shell (in terms of volume) and the Ford Focus Wagon is even larger. The Focus wagon, without even folding down the seats has 36cubic feet of cargo space. Both of these vehicles will average around 25-35mpg depending on how you drive them and both come in 5spd M/T. The Saturn wagon can be had for between $500-$2000 and the Focus wagon can be had for around $3-$6K depending on miles and condition.

[VetteOwner]

yea sounds like a truck is better for you.

im about 6'2" and cannot stand the backseat of my friends 99 civic or thier prius, its like sitting on a park bench! front seats arent much better IMO

those grand marquis can get surprisingly good hwy mpg.

sucks about the mirror tho, and really at home just the ol bucket o suds and a garden hose with a nozzle head on it to go from jet to flat i can wash my s10 in about 20 min (thats counting getting the bucket o suds etc)

i usually just grab some dawn dish soap (degreases, streak free when it shines, smells nice, cheap, can get nearly everywhere)

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by VetteOwner

yea sounds like a truck is better for you.

im about 6'2" and cannot stand the backseat of my friends 99 civic or thier prius, its like sitting on a park bench! front seats arent much better IMO

those grand marquis can get surprisingly good hwy mpg.

I'm not sure what you're talking about but the Prius and the Civics seats aren't less comfortable than a Silverado's seat at all and they're made of the same stuff. The seats aren't especially comfortable in these vehicles but they're not uncomfortable either. I think "comfort" is highly dependent on perception...if you think it's crap then it feels like crap. With that said, I can agree that the front seats in the Prius and the Civic could be more comfortable. Also it could be that you're used to reclining in your seats like you're watching TV and I guess these vehicles don't do that so well.

I plan on getting some bigger seats for my Civic but I don't know what to get considering that most seats I've sat in are technically too small for me, whether they're from an SUV or from a car.. I'd say the most perfect seat, whether for me or not is the one from a Lexus LS430..

[theclencher]

The back seat is pretty much irrelevant right? Nobody is ever back there.

You are one funny guy Jay- "can't get comfortable". Well I don't know how tall you are but at 6-4 I can get comfortable in just about anything (back seats included) all the way down to Triumph Spitfires. Actually I've been in several "full-size" SUVs and cars that were less comfortable than little cars- external size is not the best indicator of interior "comfort". I can't get comfy in Miatas though.

This artificial and arbitrary "requirement" to spend over $10 on something economical is a convenient way to justify not getting one eh? I've got whole sheds full of econo cars (30 mpg +) that were cheap if not FREE to buy. The savings from the increase econo makes the payback real quick.

As a snow country lifer, I know how easy it is to function without 4x4, especially with fwd. Unless your parts deliveries are to places off-road, I can't imagine 4x4 being a functional requirement.

Then there is the matter of the cargo, which has not been defined. You would not believe how much weight and volume can be carried in a little hatch or wagon, or even a sub-compact sedan or coupe with the rear and/or passenger seat out.

Trailers can be viable options too.

Xcab 4x4 pickup driving commuter as a long term economy forum member... that is amusing...

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by *************

Also I wouldn't consider an "extended cab" as a vehicle that seats 5 considering how cramped the rear seats are in extended cab vehicles. I've been in the backs of many "extended cabs" and the backs of civics and corollas, the civics and corollas were not only more comfortable, but ingress and egress were easier as well.

Have you been in a GM full size pickup extended cab? Mine is every bit as roomy as any car's back seat (except for a 1980s-1990s Cadillac Sedan Deville).

Comfort is as much about perception as anything else, but words usually can't fix perception. When I chose my VW I never expected to be comfortable in a small car; every small car I'd ever driven was horribly uncomfortable for me. The VW Rabbit was near the top of my list of small cars I'd tolerate based on its specifications; I went to test drive cars on the list and when I sat in the VW I was amazed, it was a miracle, I was comfortable.

Have any of you noticed how few miles Jay drives? He doesn't really need to save fuel, but it's nice that he's trying.

We really ought to be supportive of anybody wishing to save fuel in whatever they drive. Isn't this site about improving fuel economy, in ways that are less obvious and require discussion? Anybody can just buy a Prius and beat most of our fuel economy numbers. We're here to talk about getting better FE in whatever vehicles we enjoy driving.

I hope I'm not in for the same treatment next Spring when I get rid of the VW and drive my land yacht, which I am currently preparing for improved FE but will never get the numbers my VW gets...

[GasSavers_BEEF]

one thing that many have said they like about this site is that we don't bash people for driving the larger stuff.

personally, I like the little cars but it is a PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I think it is great that someone with a truck (like jays) would be willing to do all the things he has done to improve the fuel economy on it....especially when he uses it for his job and has to have it anyway.

all the environmental advocates forget about all the fuel and resources that are put into producing a vehicle. in the end, it is usually much better to drive a less efficient vehicle to death than to have to produce another vehicle every few years for the person that is replacing vehicles all the time.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by theholycow

Have you been in a GM full size pickup extended cab? Mine is every bit as roomy as any car's back seat (except for a 1980s-1990s Cadillac Sedan Deville).

I've sat in a LOT of pickups and SUVs, in the front and back, extended cab, dual cab, regular cab etc. The funny thing about these vehicles is that their owners think that an extended cab pickup or a compact SUV is somehow "bigger" in terms of interior room than any car save for the notorious land yachts like the Caprice or Lincoln Town car. Unfortunately for these people, they're wrong. I have a friend who owns a '99 Silverado extended cab and an '05 Silverado "hybrid" extended cab pickup truck. The '05 has more room in the back but I'd much rather sit in the back of my civic with the seats pushed as far back as possible than in the back of any of the Silverados with the seats only partially pushed back. I've never sat in an "extended cab" pickup (not talking about dual cab) that had the rear seats which were more comfortable than my civic.

Rear legroom is important to me and was the primary factor in me choosing the 1998 Civic over a '92-'95 Civic...(the '98 has more rear leg room)

It's funny, people who drive exclusively pickups are always "surprised" when they see how "roomy" my Civic is because they've falsely taught themselves that they need a fullsize truck just to haul 2 children to school or bring groceries home. People who drive trucks as DD tend to underestimate what a car can do which is why arguments like these always arise.

Originally Posted by theholycow

Comfort is as much about perception as anything else, but words usually can't fix perception. When I chose my VW I never expected to be comfortable in a small car; every small car I'd ever driven was horribly uncomfortable for me. The VW Rabbit was near the top of my list of small cars I'd tolerate based on its specifications; I went to test drive cars on the list and when I sat in the VW I was amazed, it was a miracle, I was comfortable.

Have any of you noticed how few miles Jay drives? He doesn't really need to save fuel, but it's nice that he's trying.

We really ought to be supportive of anybody wishing to save fuel in whatever they drive. Isn't this site about improving fuel economy, in ways that are less obvious and require discussion? Anybody can just buy a Prius and beat most of our fuel economy numbers. We're here to talk about getting better FE in whatever vehicles we enjoy driving.

I hope I'm not in for the same treatment next Spring when I get rid of the VW and drive my land yacht, which I am currently preparing for improved FE but will never get the numbers my VW gets...

I think the better question is, why not get an economy car? They can be had for cheap right now and if gas ever picks up in price you'll be set. Only reason gasoline is at the price it is now is due to a depressed economy.

Originally Posted by BEEF

one thing that many have said they like about this site is that we don't bash people for driving the larger stuff.

personally, I like the little cars but it is a PERSONAL PREFERENCE. I think it is great that someone with a truck (like jays) would be willing to do all the things he has done to improve the fuel economy on it....especially when he uses it for his job and has to have it anyway.

all the environmental advocates forget about all the fuel and resources that are put into producing a vehicle. in the end, it is usually much better to drive a less efficient vehicle to death than to have to produce another vehicle every few years for the person that is replacing vehicles all the time.

nobody is advocating buying a new vehicle.. **** if you really want to be "green", why not take a broken down economy car and fix it up again?

[bowtieguy]

people! can we stay OT here please? Jay what are your plans for the broken mirror?

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by theclencher

Xcab 4x4 pickup driving commuter as a long term economy forum member... that is amusing...

Everyone does realize my commute is about 2 miles, right? If I was driving 30 or 40 miles I might have to make some changes in my choice of vehicles. My commute is all neighborhood streets until the last block & 1/2. That means the bulk of my route to work is low priority to be cleared in bad weather. The max speed limit (until the last block and 1/2) is 35. Rear legroom in my truck is not an issue as I rarely have more than 1 passenger. When I do take trips though, people fight over who gets the back seat, because the person in the back seat usually lays down and takes a nap.

I do not have unlimited space to park vehicles. Already we have 4 vehicles parked at the house, (not counting the bike in the garage). The neighborhood is mostly ranch houses on 1/4 acre lots built in the early 70's. I can't park 10 cars in my driveway like my parents can. Since this economy car won't be a replacement, but an additional vehicle, it would have to be able to save enough $ in gas to pay for its insurance, property taxes, and registration costs to break even (and that doesn't even take into account the cost of the vehicle).

I feel I do pretty good with this truck. If you compare my truck, "The Beast" to my roommate's truck, "The Gurly Truk" you will see that I do far better than she does with a compact truck (and we have similar commutes - she works about 3 miles away)

One of the reasons I came to this site to begin with was because there was support for anyone who wanted to save fuel, no matter what they drove. Other fuel economy sites I had visited pretty much had the attitude that unless you were driving a Vx or a Prius you were flamed.

Also, I now own a vehicle that is rated 50 MPG highway. I'm hoping to see how well I can do with it. I have been riding my bike to work on days that I didn't anticipate needing the big truck, and even if I do need the truck, its only 2 miles away.

For me, if I don't enjoy driving a vehicle, I won't drive it (as I have other vehicle choices in the driveway). Comfort, utility, and that subjective quality of driving pleasure all come into play. I absolutely love driving my Buick, but I limit trips in that vehicle because other vehicles I own get better mileage. I love driving my truck, its comfortable, and provides all the utility I need for most days, and I can beat the combined EPA rating driving short trip city. I have a 1 ton van that we use for heavy hauling, and that vehicle goes about 500 miles/yr. My 86 Chevy goes less than 500 miles/yr as well. I always try to choose the best vehicle for any given task before I leave the house, and that in itself saves fuel. Some people out there would drive the 1 ton van as a daily driver to save the expense and hassle of owning multiple vehicles.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I've looked on Ebay and it appears I can get a new aftermarket power mirror for under $50. I'll be speaking with the fuel station owner later today, so I should know if they're going to reimburse me for the expense or not. If not, I doubt I will conduct any more business at that station. I chose that station because they had a car wash, free air, and its 3 blocks from my house. The pump didn't print a fuel receipt, but I had to go in to ask them to start the air pump anyway. The clerk gave me a copy of the receipt, but told me they no longer gave free air to those who purchased gasoline. I had to pay $1 to use their air pump, and it cut out before my tire was completely full (pumping to 70 PSI takes a while). Then I went in the car wash and it broke my mirror. When I got out of the wash, I examined the damage and cut my hand... Nothing went right on this stop.