CARB rules cause more traffic deaths

[shatto]

I submitted this to Mythbusters:

Doubling MPG. A major way to do it is make lighter cars. So, let's prove that removing mass kills. Or not.

Follow the Consumer Reports format and get cars from each class, from itty-bitty to "full size" and include the various incarnations of SUV's and crash them, in the average type of accident, and compare the same accident against cars that are ten to twenty years old.

Let's see how crash-dummy driver and passengers show survivability.

[theholycow]

Where are they going to find cars that are lighter than they were 20 years ago?

[bowtieguy]

the real issue is the driver, not the car. i wish all licenses were as difficult to get and maintain as a CDL.

even more stringent are truck company policies and training. i guarantee 2 things if state laws were like my company's...there would be fewer drivers on the road and the ones left would be by in large very safe!

[theclencher]

They've already done crash tests IIRC Smart vs Volvo? and probably others.

[theclencher]

Oh- show us the CARB rule that causes deaths please.

[shatto]

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

At the risk of joining the smartass club; what I am thinking about is that the CARB rules are forcing us into smaller and lighter vehicles in the interest of fuel economy and, it seems to me, eventually the point will be reached where the best engineering is unable to overcome physics and save the occupant.

YouTube has a video of tiny cars hitting a concrete road barrier at 50 MPH. The drivers corpse would not have been mangled, but, so what.

[GasSavers_Erik]

I agree with BTG, we need tougher driver testing and tougher enforcement of traffic laws- including fines for not using turn signals.

As for vehicle weight, I agree that at an 80mph impact with a stationary object, a 4000 lb steel vehicle with crush zones will likely be safer than a 2000 lb steel vehicle with crush zones.

But head on crashes between two 2000 lb vehicles at 80mph might be a draw or perhaps more safe than two 4000 lb vehicles head on at the same speed.

The best way to save lives AND save gas would be to lower speed limits AND reduce vehicle weight and engine size - but that would be very unpopular with most folks.

[trollbait]

As for vehicle weight, I agree that at an 80mph impact with a stationary object, a 4000 lb steel vehicle with crush zones will likely be safer than a 2000 lb steel vehicle with crush zones.

Depends on what is the stationary object. If it is truly stationary and doesn't give, then all the force is going into the vehicle. How physics views such a crash isn't any different than a head on one with an identical vehicle at the same speed.

YouTube has a video of tiny cars hitting a concrete road barrier at 50 MPH. The drivers corpse would not have been mangled, but, so what.

How many crashes with effective speed differentials of 100mph and up are in the 'walk it off category'?

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by shatto

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

At the risk of joining the smartass club; what I am thinking about is that the CARB rules are forcing us into smaller and lighter vehicles

Can you name any of these smaller, lighter vehicles? Any given model is larger than it used to be; as the smaller models grow, the market replaces them with new small models. In the meantime, weight is increased even for the new smaller model replacements.

A ready example for which data is easily found is the Honda Accord. It is the first car I thought of, not the product of digging for a car that supports my assertion.
1981 Honda Accord: 2000 lbs
1991 Honda Accord: 2700 lbs
2001 Honda Accord: 3100 lbs
2011 Honda Accord: 3200-3600 lbs

...not to mention that any given demographic seems to buy a larger, heavier model now than they did 20 years ago.

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

CARB or CAFE?