An Interesting Look at a Carbon Tax

[SVOboy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/bu...ml?ref=science

What do ya'll think?

[Gary Palmer]

Dress a bear in a dancing dress, it's still a bear.

Any time they talk about a tax exchange, they seem to always find a way to not return what they were supposed to. Ultimately it's ends up as an additional tax. Additionally, people like Al Gore will just purchase tax credits so they can stll continue to live one way, but talk another.

[SVOboy]

I talked to my professor who is an environmental economist about it and this is what she said:

Hi Benjamin,

Thanks for the article. (Greg Mankiw was one of my professors at Harvard!). As I teach in my environmental economics class, a carbon tax is truly the most efficient way to put a price on carbon. All economists are in agreement with this. The issue is completely political: in the U.S., "tax" is a dirty word and so a carbon tax is never discussed. However, "tax" is not a dirty word in Europe where many countries currently have a carbon tax (e.g., Norway) and use the revenue to lower another tax in the system.

[trebuchet03]

And don’t expect savings on gas to compensate consumers in a meaningful way: Any truly cost-effective increase in fuel efficiency would already have been made.

Yeah, it has - just not here...

More important, enhancing fuel efficiency by itself is not the best way to reduce energy consumption. Fuel use depends not only on the efficiency of the car fleet but also on the daily decisions that people make — how far from work they choose to live and how often they carpool or use public transportation.

Yep....

If we don't regulate ourselves soon enough, nature is going to take the liberty of doing it for us.. And that, will be much more expensive than any form of tax.

[Gary Palmer]

SVOboy; I'm pretty skeptical about governments giving anything back that they haven't taken twice over, already.

I'm extremely skeptical when anyone starts telling me that everyone is in agreement about anything.

Economists run the same gamuts as normal people and I don't think you will ever get them all to agree, on anything. Additionally, the real fact is that economics is presented as a science, when all it really is, is a bunch of theories which have been developed, at various times and according to various circumstances, to try to explain what is happening in the economy. Consequently, it's constantly in a state of change, according to what's in, or what is considered to be current thinking. Unfortunately things are changing at such a rapid rate and the number of variables is so great, that nobody really has a totally, inviolate theory, that has stood a test within the constraints of current world based economics. It's all theories.

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

I talked to my professor who is an environmental economist about it and this is what she said:

crud didnt show up but anyways, it would work/obviously work in other countries, but not this F***ed up county that were in now...too much corrution that half that tax money would never make it lower other taxes it would end up lining politicians pockets as with everythign else does...

i would give a flyin crap as long as it only applied to people owning new cars or cars after a certian model year.

[SVOboy]

I'm sure she was overblowing the "Everyone" comment since she was just talking to me over email, so I wouldn't get to uppity about that.

However, I try to actualize my role as citizen and leader of the government, so I am not so mistrustful of tax. In my view, it is the best way to make people think about their energy use everyday, and that's a good thing.

[Gary Palmer]

I wasn't trying to get uppity, sorry if you perceived it that way.

I am mistrustful of taxes and the buracracies choices of what and how to use them, as well as our elected officials ability to really manage the whole process.

Their are a whole collection of real challenges to a proposal of this nature. For instance what do you measure. How/who do your charge the tax. Who ultimately ends up paying the tax. Who/how do you, I or anyone else know for sure that the tax dollars are utilized, wisely, prudently, or how they were marketed and sold as. What do you do about people who can afford the tax and don't care?

I just really don't believe Governments are really into giving anything back. They are into somehow, someway justifying their existence and their essentialness. All it would do is create a new justification, IMO, which is all this is, anyway.

[SVOboy]

Haha, I didn't mean uppity, I just couldn't think of a word for what I meant...

I understand your skepticalness though, we're just different on that point. Also, for me, I would say I wouldn't mind if it never came back, because it's important anyway.

Also, the plan proposed would involve putting the tax rebates on the book at the same time as the new tax, so I think it would be rather set in stone, but Iono.

*shrug*

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Their are a whole collection of real challenges to a proposal of this nature. For instance what do you measure. How/who do your charge the tax. Who ultimately ends up paying the tax. Who/how do you, I or anyone else know for sure that the tax dollars are utilized, wisely, prudently, or how they were marketed and sold as. What do you do about people who can afford the tax and don't care?

We can not begin to meet those challenges until a dialog has been opened by those who have the power to change legislature. Those are all challenges that can have a solution - but only if it's something talked about...

I just really don't believe Governments are really into giving anything back. They are into somehow, someway justifying their existence and their essentialness. All it would do is create a new justification, IMO, which is all this is, anyway.

As we have at least one other country as a case study where this was effective - I think your doubt (which is completely understandable) stems from our government rather than government in general. But of course, in our governmental system - our government is a product of our people... Are the people capable, and really into giving anything back (and willing to put effort into making it happen)?