E85 - 85% Ethanol 15% Gasoline

[JanGeo]

Looks like they always talk about how great it is but forget to mention how much damage it causes to the engine.

Recent post in ETList

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ETList/message/5918

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85#Risks

Gearing up for more production and the recent reports claim a 20% gain in energy when used compared to what it takes to make it. Of course you get less gas mileage with it so it doesn't work out anyway. Just wondering what byproducts are generated from making it . . . we could be up to our eyeballs in corn husks and mash.

[diamondlarry]

Looks like they always talk about how great it is but forget to mention how much damage it causes to the engine.

As someone who grew up in farming country, I like the idea of helping out farmers by using ethanol. But, I just can't bring myself to do it because of all the negative effects it can have on most cars. If this change is going to force people to buy new cars to be able run this fuel it brings up another question: How much pollution is produced in order to produce that new car versus properly maintaining and holding on to an older car? Just a thought.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by diamondlarry

As someone who grew up in farming country, I like the idea of helping out farmers by using ethanol. But, I just can't bring myself to do it because of all the negative effects it can have on most cars. If this change is going to force people to buy new cars to be able run this fuel it brings up another question: How much pollution is produced in order to produce that new car versus properly maintaining and holding on to an older car? Just a thought.

You bring up an interesting point, but unfortunately America (for the most part) only cares about pollution if the pollution happens in America. If these cars are produced outside of America pollution will be a non-issue. At the current rate, America's future as a major automotive manufacturer is not looking good.

[rh77]

OK, so Ford has been making "FFV"s for a few years that take either an ethanol-blend, or gasoline -- you may have seen the little leaf logo on the side of the Taurus or a Ranger perhaps. President bush makes his speech about using more Ethanol during the State of the Union.

Now, GM has this huge campaign of "Be Green - Go Yellow" or something like that with ads on TV and a huge display with pamplets at the Auto Show, so now the Tahoe can use E85! Like it's a brand new idea. My concern is that GM rushed it (as usual) and didn't fortify the vital seals and components like they should. Remember the Olds and Cadillac Diesels of the late 70's/early 80's? I predict the vehicles will have several recalls, put a bad taste of ethanol in America's mouth (no pun intended), and we're back to using dino juice.

As for the price of E85, I remember 2 years ago in Iowa, it was similarly priced to 87-octane, because the taxes were lower and may have been subsidized.

What America probably won't realize is they're going to get crappy mileage with E85. It has less energy than gasoline. So they're going to figure out -- well, my Tahoe EXT 4WD is getting 12 mpg instead of the 16 when I use gas. What's the point? Well, emissions for one, but people see dollar signs at the pump, not emisions. I think this is going fall flat on its face. To little, too late, bad start.

RH77

[Matt Timion]

excellent points rh77. ONe other thing to consider with e85 is that it is CHEAP to produce. I remember reading that gasoline takes more energy to produce than you get out of it, but e85 actually produces more energy than it takes to produce. This is mainly due to the fact that soy and corn take little energy to grow. They also get free energy from the sun.

The mileage aspect, as well as the price will be major hurdles to overcome in the war of public opinion.

[SVOboy]

excellent points rh77. ONe other thing to consider with e85 is that it is CHEAP to produce. I remember reading that gasoline takes more energy to produce than you get out of it, but e85 actually produces more energy than it takes to produce. This is mainly due to the fact that soy and corn take little energy to grow. They also get free energy from the sun.

The mileage aspect, as well as the price will be major hurdles to overcome in the war of public opinion.

Brazil, which is moving to full energy independence in the realm of their cars and petroleum and junk, has done so mainly with the aid of ethanol. Drivers down there realize they get worse gas mileage, but the cost of the ethanol still ends up saving them money. Hopefully South and Central America will get a small bit of economic independence out of this stuff, I dunno how much we people with money are going to worry about change when we don't need to, however.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by SVOboy

Brazil, which is moving to full energy independence in the realm of their cars and petroleum and junk, has done so mainly with the aid of ethanol. Drivers down there realize they get worse gas mileage, but the cost of the ethanol still ends up saving them money. Hopefully South and Central America will get a small bit of economic independence out of this stuff, I dunno how much we people with money are going to worry about change when we don't need to, however.

Brazil, however, has the advantage of abundant sugar cane and a longer crop season. I think I remember reading that if all available farm land were converted to corn we still wouldn't have enough room to make enough ethanol to power America's fleet.

[SVOboy]

I think I remember reading that if all available farm land were converted to corn we still wouldn't have enough room to make enough ethanol to power America's fleet.

Sounds like it's time to make our fleet a little more efficient.

[diamondlarry]

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

Brazil, however, has the advantage of abundant sugar cane and a longer crop season. I think I remember reading that if all available farm land were converted to corn we still wouldn't have enough room to make enough ethanol to power America's fleet.

I have heard the same thing. Actually, I think I heard that if EVERY square inch of land-farm& non-farm- were planted with corn there wouldn't be enough. I'm not sure we could make our fleet efficient enough to make it work.

[SVOboy]

I doubt we could make it efficient enough but we could try, at least. Or just eliminate a large portion of it.