PBS tonight: Who Killed the Electric Car? (Sony pictures)

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

Originally Posted by mochabuzz

Everytime i'm at a costco i see those E-car spaces & they are taken up by bigAss SUV's! It really pisses me off
In regard to the movie: one question.... Why did GM/Saturn build a car that used zero gasoline? It doesn't make sense to me.... GM has built terribly inefficient cars for years (Tahoe's, Suburban's, etc...) & then they suddenly decide to build a car that uses no gas? C'mon!

It was because, here in the Country of the Deity of Your Choice, there was a mandate that by 2000, at least 2% (IIRC) of all cars sold had it be zero emissions cars.

Don't be so hard on GM...they've also built Geo Metros, Chevrolet Sprints (OK, that was Suzuki, but who's counting?), Chevettes, and an Oldsmobile back in the '60s that was optimized for best FE.

[theholycow]

GM builds what its customers will actually pay for, and what the law requires.

One question I thought of yesterday, which is probably easy to answer but I didn't think of the answer: Why hasn't another company made use of the R&D that went into the EV1 and built a similar (but not patent-infringing) car? If you believe certain things that you read on the internet, there's plenty of people willing to pay plenty of money.

[trollbait]

As I see it, the main patent in contention is the one for the battery pack. So, for a majority of time since it's demise, a potential company would limited to lead acid or a NimH pack smaller than the patent. The first EV1, with lead acid batteries, only had a range of 50 to 75 miles. The NimH pack nearly doubled that.

The range and cost of an EVclone with lead acid would likely not be successful. A larger pack isn't a simple answer because of the increased weight. The Tango still seems to be selling, but it is a radical design from the conventional car.

I guess a mixed pack of lead acid and NimH might have worked, but I don't would be needed to mesh the power coming from the two packs into the drive train.

Lithium batteries have only recently become feasible for cars, and then the first one to market, Tesla, is in the super sport niche to help cover the battery costs. Their next model is going to be a luxury sedan.
It sounds like Nissan will be leasing the battery pack for the Leaf out instead of selling it with the car.

So EVclones weren't made because the NimH patent was needed at the time for a successful model.

[theholycow]

Originally Posted by trollbait

As I see it, the main patent in contention is the one for the battery pack. So, for a majority of time since it's demise, a potential company would limited to lead acid or a NimH pack smaller than the patent.

There is some skepticism about the effect of that patent issue.
http://www.gassavers.org/showthread....162#post138162

[trollbait]

If Cobasys really wants the market, then why aren't they in it?
The Prius pack was sized to be under the patent limit, and supposedly, you can't get a replacement for the Rav4 EV. Toyota likely wants to stick with their partners at home, but that doesn't explain why Ford and GM have stuck to smaller packs or gone with lithium. I understand wanting to maximize your profit, but you still have to actually sell product. Pricing it higher than what customers are willing to pay ends up being the same as not selling it at all.

LiFe phosphate batteries are starting to come to market. If they really want to make money off their patent, they are running out of time.

[theholycow]

The patent conspiracy argument says that Cobasys is purposely pricing it out of the market precisely so that they won't sell it, because they are 50% owned by Chevron.

[trollbait]

Back in the EV1's heyday, cheap gas was also a factor.
That doesn't explain their lack of involvement in the market now. Perhaps lithium has enough of a weight and size edge over NimH for it to be the preferred battery in modern EV car design. On the other hand, a few owners have improved their milage by just expanding the Prius battery pack. Adding a few more cells should not have broke the bank on Toyota's end, if it would have improved performance of the Prius.

[rgathright]

Originally Posted by theholycow

The patent conspiracy argument says that Cobasys is purposely pricing it out of the market precisely so that they won't sell it, because they are 50% owned by Chevron.

Try finding a Li-Ion cell larger than D right now. Nearly impossible. If found, they come from overseas with no warranties. Oh and the US dollar is really hurting those imports.

[eco_rat]

Originally Posted by theholycow

GM builds what its customers will actually pay for, and what the law requires.

One question I thought of yesterday, which is probably easy to answer but I didn't think of the answer: Why hasn't another company made use of the R&D that went into the EV1 and built a similar (but not patent-infringing) car? If you believe certain things that you read on the internet, there's plenty of people willing to pay plenty of money.

My thoughts aswell.....if its was all the gov ,auto ind and oil giants fault then what would happen if one was made RIGHT NOW where everyone is wanting to 'go green' ......scrap your old banger and get a new fuel efficient car (UK) etc ?

[carmarble]

It also seems odd to me that GM at the time, built the most advanced BEV in the EV1. Since then, they haven't been able to build a decent hybrid electric vehicle, with the CEO even saying that hybrids were a passing fancy. Now GM's future is tied up in the success of failure of the Volt PHEV. GM just seems like a company without a rudder to me.