Electric, it's almost time to switch

[JockoT]

I was reading an article that said that most worn-out EV batteries unless physically damaged, are recycled for use in mass storage. The lack of useable capacity doesn't create an issue as range is not a factor anymore. They just tie tons of them together.

[trollbait]

That's one use for old EV batteries. The issue with that and recycling is simply a question of supply. They are a question that is asked during the development of the batteries, and work is going into answer it, but until there is enough old batteries out there, there is going to be little investment to do the collection, sorting, repurposing, and recycling. Unless regulations are in place to force it.

If they do end up in a landfill, Li-ion batteries are non-toxic. They don't contain anything like lead or cadmium. There is a risk of fire if the cells still have a charged.

[JockoT]

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries. As a result, some jurisdictions require lithium-ion batteries to be recycled.

[danwellington0]

you have to change the engine oil every 5000miles or so but on EV such as tesla they are claiming that their battery will last more than million miles. if you think of a long term. EV's are always better.

[Hntbambi]

There are still a lot of drawbacks to EV. Number 1 is the infrastructure is not there. I live in the desert Southwest and the average household connection is not robust enough for charging at home. Add in another 100 Amps per household and the grid is overly stressed. It is currently stressed in the summer just trying to keep people's air conditioning running.

Range of EV is lacking. Not a big deal for big city folks but I have a 400 mile drive to Phoenix, AZ. Now if it is summer time and a wreck on the highway occurs it can be deadly as the temp on the pavement is 110°F or higher. Not to mention if I drive through the mountains there are steep grades and elevation changes of 5000-6000 feet which also sucks up the watts in the batteries.

I have no intentions of ever owning a EV. There is no shortage of petroleum so I will stick with the dead dinosaurs powering my chariot. I won't even get into the utilities are controlled by the government.

[Draigflag]

Your country hasn't reached the tipping point yet, that's why, it will eventually. We are starting to see it here in the UK, the list of reasons to own Ice vehicles becomes shorter by the day. In other European countries, some 85% of new vehicles are electric or partially electric.

The infrastructure has been there all along, it's just not been designed with EVs in mind. When I visit certain cities in the UK, every lamp post has the ability to plug in an EV. Think how many millions of lamp posts line every street in every city, it's really not a big deal to adapt. I read somewhere that every new built house in the UK will have an EV charger as standard equipment too.

[JockoT]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

every new built house in the UK will have an EV charger as standard equipment too.

And mandatory solar panels, as will all commercial buildings such as offices, warehouses and superstores.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by JockoT

Lithium-ion batteries contain metals such as cobalt, nickel, and manganese, which are toxic and can contaminate water supplies and ecosystems if they leach out of landfills. Additionally, fires in landfills or battery-recycling facilities have been attributed to inappropriate disposal of lithium-ion batteries. As a result, some jurisdictions require lithium-ion batteries to be recycled.

Better stop cooking acidic foods then, the nickel is leaching out of the stainless pot. There is plenty of that in landfills from all the stainless alloys and other products.

Iron is poisonous if you ingest enough of it. Likewise, the serious health problems seen from nickel, cobalt, and manganese come from large doses, as in, working with metals and compounds. Like iron, the cobalt and manganese are required nutrients; cobalt is in B12 and manganese is component of proteins.

So yes, these elements can be toxic, depending on form and dose. Compared to cadmium and lead, they are harmless. And we will be recycling these batteries in time. Cobalt is currently going for $50,000 a metric ton, and was over $80k for a quarter in the past year.

Originally Posted by Hntbambi

There are still a lot of drawbacks to EV. Number 1 is the infrastructure is not there. I live in the desert Southwest and the average household connection is not robust enough for charging at home. Add in another 100 Amps per household and the grid is overly stressed. It is currently stressed in the summer just trying to keep people's air conditioning running.

Range of EV is lacking. Not a big deal for big city folks but I have a 400 mile drive to Phoenix, AZ. Now if it is summer time and a wreck on the highway occurs it can be deadly as the temp on the pavement is 110°F or higher. Not to mention if I drive through the mountains there are steep grades and elevation changes of 5000-6000 feet which also sucks up the watts in the batteries.

I have no intentions of ever owning a EV. There is no shortage of petroleum so I will stick with the dead dinosaurs powering my chariot. I won't even get into the utilities are controlled by the government.

You are running your AC at night? Oh, maybe with global warming you do.

US infrastructure has been neglected for decades. The grid needed major investment before EVs. Accounting for the cars won't add much to the price tag. They might even help the stabilize grid.

The infrastructure is growing. Not everybody could ditch their horse in the beginning of ICE cars either.

As for government and utilities, it is more the other way around. In Nevada, the utilities got the government to pass regulation making home solar a money losing operation for the home owner. The issues in Texas are because the utility board are unwilling to impose upon the power companies.

Originally Posted by Draigflag

The infrastructure has been there all along, it's just not been designed with EVs in mind. When I visit certain cities in the UK, every lamp post has the ability to plug in an EV. Think how many millions of lamp posts line every street in every city, it's really not a big deal to adapt. I read somewhere that every new built house in the UK will have an EV charger as standard equipment too.

There is a difference between the US and Europe that seems minor, but has a major impact on public charging.

You would need to supply the cord for, at least some, public chargers. Here, all public chargers have the cord. I think it isn't hard to imagine the difference that makes in regards to things like those lamp posts. they are also working on chargers that mount right into the curb/kerb there. Without a change here, we'll end up with cords lying all over the streets and sidewalks.

[Draigflag]

I predict a huge slowdown in EV registrations here in the UK. The cost of manufacturing is soaring thanks to the war, the grants are being cut and that's before you mention the cost of running one now. If you get 40 UK MPG then your car is cheaper to run than an EV when using public chargers. The most expensive chargers now cost £1 per KWH.

For those charging at home, whilst the cost has almost doubled, it's still cheaper than gas/diesel currently, although the gap is alot tighter. I can see the government delaying the ice ban in 7 years...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...s-63029226.amp

[JockoT]

At the moment, in the UK, a fifth of all new vehicles registered are electric in some form. Either Hybrid, PHEV or EV.