Electric conversion: Project ForkenSwiift

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

irony of the week: took delivery of the forklift on wednesday.

thursday: geo metro conversion offered on the EV discussion list (EVDL) - for FREE to whoever comes and picks it up (in connecticut). needs batteries and cosmetic work (had been vandalized - windows, dents).

I'd find a way to get it if I were you. YOu can still break even on the forklift, and even make a profit on the other metro.

But then there is the issue of getting it from CT. how far is it from you?

Then again, taking a free one would definately not help with the "learning" issue. Maybe you can get someone to pull all of the parts and ship them to you.

[MetroMPG]

ct is probably 10-12 hrs away from here.

but the free metro ev was claimed within an hour of that post going up.

we will stay the course! onwards to frankenswift! suzukistein!

[JanGeo]

The Scion 1500cc motor dressed is 187 lbs all aluminum and plastic.

The Geo stock motor is probably in the 150 lbs range I would guess - it is really small. The major weight in a motor is the crank.

[SVOboy]

My engine with tranny with fluids would weigh about 180 I'd say. I can pick it up by myself but of course I hurt myself in the process. I did it the other day,

[JanGeo]

Yeah - but maybe you end up with a very efficient motor . . . then again I have a 8 HP electric brushless that weighs 15 lbs. and the 16 HP version only weighs about 22 lbs. with efficiency over 92%

[MetroMPG]

jangeo, does size of a brushed motor relate directly to efficiency?

i understand that motor heat is a symptom of inefficiency, and a large motor like this is much less succeptible to overheating.

but is its low heating a result of some inherently more efficient design, or because it's just a better heat sink?

[JanGeo]

Usually the bigger the motor the more core material there is which supports the magnetic fields needed. The real indicator of efficency is the amount of copper in the motor - the heavier the wire the more efficient it will be. The extra mass helps with cooling but the real indicator is how much air flow it needs - if completely sealed then it is better - the more air slots the poorer the design as it will tend to get hot and needs a lot of cooling if run at high power levels. There is also peak load as in lifting in a fork lift and moving plus it is not getting any high speed air moving under the hood and it may be inside in a hot warehouse. So I don't think you will have cooling issues - you can probably push the power way up in this motor too for short durations. Hopefully the brushes are ok too!

[rh77]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

"diesel and locomotive cable". how cool will that look under the hood of a suzuki swift.

I just had a recurring idea. I grew up around locomotives with my father being an engineer. Long story short, I got to know how they worked from the time I was like 3 years old.

For those who don't know, it's an interesting process, which has worked well for over 50 years. The "Prime Mover" is the big Diesel engine that you hear rumbling. This engine ranges in number of cylinders 12-16, and the pistons are larger than you or I. Redline is around 500 RPM.

The Diesel engine turns a huge generator, which produces a schload of electricity. The electric power from the generator goes to the "Traction Motors", which is what moves the locomotive (some have 4, some 6). When slowing or going down a large hill, instead of burning up the brakes or losing air, many loco models have what's called "Dynamic Braking". The traction motor's polarity is reversed, and turned into generators. The resistance slows the train and sends the electricity to huge capacitors where the juice is lost in heat dissipation.

I've thought many times how this would work to power a car. Could a small engine and generator, in team with some batteries, use the same concept to make a car that's FE? The purpose of the batteries could be used to get the vehicle going, then the engine kicks in to get the power flowing to recharge the batteries and power the traction motor on the vehicle. In addition, regenerative/dynamic braking could charge the batteries. The question would be whether the generator and small engine would weigh more than the additional batteries on an electric-only setup. The range would definitely increase, as would the speed (depending on your electric motor). A plug-in system could re-charge the batts overnight. Almost like a hybrid, but perhaps more efficient.

Sorry to beat on GM again, but half locomotives out there are made by a division of GM, and the other half by GE. GM has the technology -- modify it into cars!

RH77

[Matt Timion]

If you want to guess it's weight, do this:

While holding it, stand on a scale. Then stand on the scale without it and subtract the difference.

What? You can't hold 400lbs? Pansy!



<--goofy mood.

[SVOboy]

The "Prime Mover" is the big Diesel engine that you hear rumbling.

Nice aristotle joke there, bud.