Could this be the breakthrough in electric vehicles

[JockoT]

Could this be the breakthrough in electric vehicles, that the world is waiting on?
Interesting and exciting research happening, here in Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45179722

[LDB]

Very interesting but no mention of the waste disposal part of the equation or the overall environmental impact. Everyone thinks our current 10-15% ethanol fuel is wonderful but between the corn taken away from food, the decreased mpg because of it, and the rest of the equation the environmental impact is greater than just using plain gasoline.

[JockoT]

How the stuff is manufactured and what is done with the waste fuel is a matter for conjecture. It may be recycled, it may be "recharged", it may burn its way to the earth's core. I have no idea what resources it uses to manufacture the materials.
They say "that can be charged with electricity" so it gives the impression it is charged and discharged, so perhaps the filling station will be supplied with "charged fluid" and the used material will go off to to be "recharged".
When I was a child we did not have electricity (many old houses did not) and my father used to hire a lead acid "Accumulator" from the local electrician, to power his radio. You used it, returned it to be recharged, and came home with a fully charged one. Perhaps this fluid works the same way.

[Draigflag]

Could be a breakthrough, could be another dead end, there's so much research and development in this area currently. I remember reading last year about a project in Iran with batteries full of an organic bio matter that claimed the same thing, could be charged in minutes and had less degradation than lithium ion. With the amount of capital being invested, it's only a matter of time before something world changing like this happens.

[trollbait]

It is a type of flow battery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery

The electrolyte can be recharged, and ideally, you can charge the car at home.

"Because it's a liquid it would just work as normal using the same infrastructure." That is a bit of a stretch. We can't pump ethanol through existing petroleum pipe lines because it is incompatiable with the materials used. Then no gas station is set up to suck fuel out of a tank.

Unless there was some improvement not mentioned in the article, these batteries are lower energy density than current Li-ion. Getting the range of traditional cars means putting in some big tanks.

[JockoT]

Originally Posted by trollbait

these batteries are lower energy density than current Li-ion.

The article actually states that: "And Prof Cronin said his liquid battery did not age in the same way as current electric systems. He also said their capacity - the amount of energy they can carry - WAS HIGHER".

Regarding infra structure, I don't think he was intending the petrol pumps to dispense the liquid, but like the way LPG pumps here in the UK are just another pump on the forecourt, so too would be the pumps for the electrolyte.

[JockoT]

Just read the Flow Battery link. It looks like the system being worked on in Glasgow is a higher energy density version. The Wiki link says the batteries have short range, but the Glasgow article states "The Glasgow team said the liquid would provide the same range of miles as conventional fossil fuel."
We will just have to wait and see if anything comes of it, or if battery technology leapfrogs it and renders it immaterial.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by JockoT

The article actually states that: "And Prof Cronin said his liquid battery did not age in the same way as current electric systems. He also said their capacity - the amount of energy they can carry - WAS HIGHER".

Regarding infra structure, I don't think he was intending the petrol pumps to dispense the liquid, but like the way LPG pumps here in the UK are just another pump on the forecourt, so too would be the pumps for the electrolyte.

I'd like to see an article with more technical details. Great if they ahve made improvements.

Infrastructure is more than the pump the end consumer sees. It is everything that happens behind it. That's why I called the comment a bit of a stretch.

Range of a conventional car doesn't mean anything without more details. A conventional car can have a range of today's battery car, just put in a smaller fuel tank. A BEV can have longer range with just installing a bigger battery. If conventional car range is at the expense of cargo or passenger space, then adding more battery or bigger electrolyte tanks isn't really a just.

Of course the most important detail is cost. If the electrolyte fill up costs more than current fossil fuels, and the ability to charge at home is taken away, then this isn't a solution. Tesla had battery swapping that could change the pack on a Model S in 90 seconds. People chose to wait at Superchargers instead of paying the $80 for the swap.

[JockoT]

Yes, lots of unanswered questions. I was trying to find patent info with no success. It could be a crock of sh*t or as I said in my first post: "Could this be the breakthrough in electric vehicles, that the world is waiting on?".
Only time will tell.

[gregsfc]

Originally Posted by LDB

Everyone thinks our current 10-15% ethanol fuel is wonderful but between the corn taken away from food, the decreased mpg because of it, and the rest of the equation the environmental impact is greater than just using plain gasoline.

I know of very few people in my area that think of anything good when thinking about ethanol-fortified fuel. Pure gas is available in many locations around my home, but is not available in some states as I understand it. Lots of consumers in my state use pure gas exclusively for lawn equipment and other small engines as most of us in general hate the stuff as a motor fuel, but the problem is that it's price usually exceeds the price of every other motor vehicle fuel except for maybe premium gas; so hardly anyone, including myself, can get himself or herself to fill up with it despite our desires to support it's production. Even 87 octane pure gas may reach as high as 90 cents/gal more than regular E10; particularly when the price of fuels is generally low.


There is a website, www.pure-gas.org where one can find stations that carry it or can add to the data base on the list; it's categorized by state. I don't put anything in a small engine but pure gas and stabilizer. Small engine mechanics love ethanol. It keeps them in business, as the stuff absorbs water much worse than pure gasoline.