Water situation could eclipse oil situation?

[theclencher]

erm... so they are looking after their best interests by bringing more people into a world (place, culture, area) that doesn't even support the ones already there?

no, really, here is why they have so many children then just let em die off if there's no food: they be horny, they have no sense of responsibility (lookit the cbs link and find the quote from the guy that says it's "god's will" ), they don't put much value on human life, they don't put much thought into human suffering and it's causes, and they can't put 2 and 2 together but they damn sure know how to put I and O together!

Could be lack of contraceptive availability too, I dunno.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Children are a valuable resource for a poor family.

[theclencher]

don't worry, we'll make more!

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Ya, more or less. In areas where the death rate is fairly high, practices that encourage lots of kids tend to keep on keepin' on for a few generations after the conditions where they were needed change. Same thing happens with immigrant families, usually by the second generation IME. I'm Italian and I have tons of aunts and uncles (1st gen), more than a few cousins (2nd) and only me in my age group w/ my last name. I see the same thing happening in the 2nd generation of my friend's Mexican family, although it's kinda muddled since a lot of kids were adopted into the family from Mexico in the 50s-80s and are kinda sorta 1st gen.

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by theclencher

erm... so they are looking after their best interests by bringing more people into a world (place, culture, area) that doesn't even support the ones already there?

no, really, here is why they have so many children then just let em die off if there's no food: they be horny, they have no sense of responsibility (lookit the cbs link and find the quote from the guy that says it's "god's will" ), they don't put much value on human life, they don't put much thought into human suffering and it's causes, and they can't put 2 and 2 together but they damn sure know how to put I and O together!

In general, our instinct is survival -- despite all of the hardships.... For a subsistence society like that to function, it's a necessity to have a larger family. Children didn't survive? Have some more. It's a terrible thing, yes, but that's the reality. I'm sure it's an emotional roller coaster for them, but the need for working bodies is greater than the strain from a child's death.

We can rip someone a new hole on fuel use too - put 2 and 2 together on the costs, it's destroying our air etc. and we're dependent on a finite resource. But how many people will hear that argument, sell their car and stop consuming oil to the best of their ability? Sure, put human life on it and that changes things for most people - but the argument is the same in my opinion.

It's another terrible comparison... But it's very much like corn production in the US.... Farmers produce corn -- make money - produce more corn... Corn prices plummet... Solution? Plant more corn to make up for the price loss... Price to low to sell? Let the crop rot (perhaps collect subsidy? ). I don't know why that happened, but that's the way things went down. The corn condom solution? Subsidies, apparently -- but corn production is still really high... Solution? Find more uses.

The reason I made that comparison - culturally, children are a commodity for survival. If you don't have a large enough family - you die. Of course, too many people -- you die. But it's human nature to take action rather than inaction when it comes to survival.

Could be lack of contraceptive availability too, I dunno.

Possible, but the entire world dumps a lot into that region to battle HIV... Of course, if you don't explain how to put a condom on properly, effectiveness goes down :/


------
Yeah, that whole god's will thing bothered me a bit.... But please don't get me wrong, I agree with you for the most part - it's no use engineering a solution for a small portion of the problem. Decrease infant mortality and you're likely to lower the average life expectancy.

[theclencher]

digressing from the OP, but anyway- what i find frustrating about it is this is not a new or temporary phenomenon. food, money, and other aid has been pumped into these places for generations and today's results? worse off than ever. it's my turn to invoke god and say "god helps those who help themselves"

[bowtieguy]

Originally Posted by theclencher

digressing from the OP, but anyway- what i find frustrating about it is this is not a new or temporary phenomenon. food, money, and other aid has been pumped into these places for generations and today's results? worse off than ever. it's my turn to invoke god and say "god helps those who help themselves"

amen! even if you teach them to fish rather than give them a fish, it doesn't guarantee future success(self reliance)...

when my father-in-law was in the military, his company went overseas to an unnamed 3rd world country with farm equipment to teach the people how to sow and reap for themselves; including how to maintain said equipment. was a great success!, but...

after returning some time later, they found dried-up and useless fields with broken down farm equipment. after "investigating," the military discovered that the locals found a way to make an alcohlic beverage out of the antifreeze in the tractors. end of story.<hickup!>

you can lead a horse(person) to water...

[1993CivicVX]

We'll have to make nice with Russia. Instead of oil tankers going around the globe, there'll be water tankers.

What am I on about you ask? Surely I am not the only one who has put these two together.

Here's an excerpt from an article: Well, it's incredibly pure. And that's a result both of sort of geologic processes and biologic processes and I think most people think of purity as something that's, you know, a result of human processes but actually in Baikal it's what scientists call oligotrophic, which means it has almost no nutrients or minerals in it.

Russia's Lake Baikal holds 20&#37; of the world's fresh water

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by theclencher

digressing from the OP, but anyway- what i find frustrating about it is this is not a new or temporary phenomenon. food, money, and other aid has been pumped into these places for generations and today's results? worse off than ever. it's my turn to invoke god and say "god helps those who help themselves"

Sure, I tend to agree -- as I've said for some time, if we don't self regulate ourselves, nature will do so for us. It's a situation where the land just won't support the population - eventually - a balance will be achieved and the cost will be quite a few lives, dead babies and such. Think of it as a pre-screening of future conditions on Earth

But that doesn't change my earlier statements, the differences in child birth attitude are primarily cultural and survival.

[McPatrick]

I couldn't believe the fact that America is using 500.000 gallons per person on average (including industries, farmin etc.). I looked up to see what the Netherlands is using on average, a country that is never short of water really, and it turned out to be 17,590 gallons per person including farming, industries etc. So in the US we use 30 times as much which is pretty scary, but on the other hand maybe it is good to see that we should be able to manage with much less water.