VW diesels gone from the U.S.

[Draigflag]

Well you could say that about anywhere in that case. London for example, one city in one country smaller than the state of Florida, yet on a busy day it has a greater population than the entire continent of Australia, or even 6 times the population of the country I live in. If only we averaged everything evenly, pollution wouldn't harm as much, and those who choose to die from obesity could perhaps share thier food with the 20,000 that die from starvation every day

[BlueRover]

No you said, without ever being there, that California is polluted, and I said that only a small area of the land mass is polluted.

I read that France is considering banning Diesels from the cities, is that true or just something on the old internet. LOL

[Draigflag]

California has the worst air quality in the US, that's just a fact, a fact determined by scientific research. And of all the cities that have already banned cars, they have banned all fuel types, not just diesels. That has been discussed and ridiculed by many, given the tiny percentage of pollution they contribute, it's long been realised it would make little to no difference to air quality.

[BlueRover]

Cars bad in California ?? But cause no problems in European Cities??? Seems logical.

[trollbait]

VW might be the cleanest on the road diesel in Europe, but the BMW in the study that caught them was cleaner, and might even have been as clean as a gasoline vehicle over the same roads.

It is possible to make a diesel that meets US standards without cheating; BMW and others prove it, and it can be done without losing the diesel's fuel economy. US models are being certified to Tier 3 already, and have been for the past couple of years.

Gasoline emission control technology have had decades to get where they are now. Diesels had to meet US specifications in a much shorter time. There is no reason to believe they won't improve in performance and cost with time.

Heavy duty trucks have a less stringent standard to meet than personal vehicles; they aren't even required to post fuel economy figures. Many of us wish they were held to a tighter standard, seeing how the trucks are also used as personal vehicles. Offering a reasonable sized diesel in the 1500 class truck would cut the number of those monster diesels sold, but at less profit.

NOx, which is linked to health, deaths, and quality of life, emissions isn't linked to fuel efficiency. An oversized gas engine can meet US emission standards, and still have to pay a guzzler tax.

Two to three times as many hybrids sell in the US compared to diesels. For the longest time, VWs were a large part of those diesels sold. Mercedes was the only other one selling cars during the time. They both cite the emission regulations of the US as reason to reduce the number of models with diesel, or leave completely. But they were also starting to face more competition from BMW, GM, FCA, and now Mazda. They might have decided to leave now vs. facing loses.

Originally Posted by Draigflag

Highest standards, but are they just set up to fail like other standards around the globe? California had the highest level of airborne pollutants in any US state just 8 years ago, pollution related deaths in LA are tripple those in NYC. The pollution in California has been so bad, that federal health standards for ozone levels have only been met three days this summer.

California cities are sighted between incoming ocean winds and tall mountains. The resulting concentration in air pollution is why CARB was founded, and it came into being before the EPA. The EPA test cycles are based upon drive patterns from 1940's L.A.

Without CARB, L.A. would be worse than Beijing.

[cuts_off_prius]

The software 'fix' sounds interesting:
Volkswagen TDI Owners Seem Mostly Happy About Their Dieselgate Software Fix

[SteveMak]

cuts_off_prius: Thanks for the article.

FWIW, I've spent a lot of time on UseNet and Internet forums. Whenever I read a post, I receive it with the implied disclaimer of "According to my beliefs, opinions, expectations, assumptions, and understandings, my perception on the matter is as follows..."

I do not receive posts as though "...I'm an engineer with all the required equipment at my disposal. I always follow the scientific method and have my work peer reviewed to eliminate errors. I establish a baseline for all comparisons, which I know applies to most of the world. I have no vested interest in any outcome..."

I mention this because the story you cite lists forum members' perceptions rather than hard numbers and comparisons to well-established baseline numbers. Still a good read, though. Thanks again!

[cuts_off_prius]

Well, what do ya know?

Diesels Account for 12% of VW Sales in April - VWVortex

Diesels Account for 12% of VW Sales in April



Although the dieselgate scandal may have spooked Volkswagen out of selling TDIs, it hasn’t stopped consumers buying them. Last month, diesel vehicles made up up 12% of Volkswagen of America’s sales as the company celebrated another positive sales month.

Volkswagen’s sales increase this April was modest, but it still bucked industry trends. With an increase in sales of 1.3%, VW outperformed the US car market in general, which fell by 4.7%.

Before the scandal, diesel sales accounted for 20-25% of sales at VW, so the numbers weren’t back up to pre-scandal figures in April. That was perhaps predictable, though, since sales were limited to 2015 models and only started mid-month. That said, incentives of up $8,500 may have made them more appealing to buyers.

The automaker reported sales of 27,557 vehicles in all in April, meaning that about 3,300 of those were TDI Golfs, Jettas, or Beetles. The EPA approved fix, meanwhile, means that in total about 67,000 TDIs are currently eligible for sale in the US.

Volkswagen has stated time and again, though, that TDIs are not coming back to the US. It is instead focusing its efforts on electric-powered vehicles, which it anticipates will fill the sales gap left by diesels.

There is certainly a market for diesels in America, at least for Volkswagen. Look at the numbers, those are some diehard Volkswagen diesel fans. They'd have to be stupid not to offer them in the coming years, with fuel prices estimated to go up.

[SteveMak]

cuts_off_prius: FYI, the brisk sales are 2015 model year diesels that were affected by the "Stop Sales" order following Dieselgate, Sep 2015. These 2.0L TDIs are now "fixed", and heavily discounted as "2-year-old," unused cars in 2017. So i'm not sure how much of these brisk sales can be attributed to rabid diesel fans versus steep discounts.

Also, the 'Net is showing numerous reports of "fixed" 2.0L TDIs experiencing premature component failures. VW is in damage control mode, acknowledging there is a problem but claiming it affects "only about 1%" of owners. I suspect VW is downplaying this so they don't look bad about a government-approved fix, which was supposed not to have any detrimental effect on reliability, fuel economy, and performance, and it's not living up to what authorities approved.

[Draigflag]

Some interesting diesel facts from green car guide in the UK:

In 2016, a record 1.3 million new diesel cars were registered in the UK, up 0.6% on the previous year – a trend that’s continuing in 2017. In March, more businesses and consumers chose a new diesel car than in any other month in history, with almost quarter of a million leaving showrooms.

Diesel is critical to reducing CO2 emissions, which in turn is tackling climate change – diesel cars emit, on average, 20% lower CO2 than petrol equivalents. In fact, since 2002, diesel cars have saved 3.5 million tonnes of CO2 from going into the atmosphere.

Almost one in every two new cars registered in the UK is a diesel, with buyers valuing their high performance and low fuel consumption. On average, diesels use 20% less fuel than like for like petrol models, and with diesel drivers typically covering 60% more miles, lower fuel bills are essential.

More than 99% of the UK’s 4.4 million commercial vehicles are powered by diesel and they transport people, essential goods and our emergency services over 61 billion miles every year. Without them, life would be much harder.

Advanced diesel technology has virtually eliminated emissions of particulate matter, with 99% of these soot particulates captured by special filters fitted to all new diesel cars since 2011. Around half of diesels on the road now boast a DPF.

The latest Euro 6 vehicles are the cleanest in history – and light years away from their older counterparts. As well as special filters, they also feature clever technology that converts most of the NOx from the engine into harmless nitrogen and water before it reaches the exhaust.

Euro 6 technology works. Real world tests using a London bus route show a 95% drop in NOx compared with previous generation Euro 5 buses. In fact, if every older bus operating in the capital were replaced with a Euro 6 version, total NOx emissions in London would fall by 7.5%.

The latest Euro 6 cars are classed as low emission for the purposes of the London Ultra Low Emission Zone due to come into force in 2019, meaning drivers of these vehicles will be free to enter the zone without charge.

Contrary to recent reports, diesel cars are not the main source of urban NOx. In London, gas heating of homes and offices is the biggest contributor, responsible for 16%. While road transport as a whole is responsible for around half of London’s NOx, diesel cars produce just 11%, although concentrations will vary at different times depending on congestion. Keeping traffic moving is the key to keeping emissions low.

In September this year, a new official EU-wide emissions testing system will come into force. This will involve, for the first time, on-road testing to better reflect the many and varied conditions involved in ‘real-world’ driving such as speed, congestion, road conditions and driving style. This will be the world’s toughest-ever emissions standard.

Should you buy a diesel car? - GreenCarGuide.co.uk