GM's idiocy shown in small car "greenwashing" bait & switch

[MetroMPG]

Somebody needs to tell the Big 2.5 to truck off.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by cfg83

I don't see the need to decrease safety for MPG.

I really don't think it's FOR mpg really... I see the increased safety standards as a real double bind.

Why?

Well, motorcycles are the LEAST safe of all vehicles, and they are legal. My n600 is essentially a motorcycle with a soda can on the outside. It's still legal. My 89 Civic doesn't have airbags and it's still legal.

I think that if safety was really the issue they would phase out the old vehicles as well. i can't help but think that the safety standards are just a way to make cheap (lighter and less profitable) cars less advantageous to produce. Thanks to lobbyists for that.

[SVOboy]

Oh, the issues of old cars and grandfathering. I think we should make testing stricter but allow more cars, because 5star to me doesn't mean much at all really, if there were a greater difference in ratings we could lower requirements and let people make their own decisions. And tax cars that are more dangerous for other people (ie trunks),

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

On the subject of safety
I did see an internal sled concept not too long ago

Very cool! What about using actuators controlled by a computer that can measure acceleration and change the dampening rate? There's plenty of cool stuff out there (Bose EM suspension) that probably doesn't cost a whole lot more than conventional, but won't be used because big manufacturers don't want to pay royalties.

[cfg83]

Matt -

Originally Posted by Matt Timion

I really don't think it's FOR mpg really... I see the increased safety standards as a real double bind.

Why?

Well, motorcycles are the LEAST safe of all vehicles, and they are legal. My n600 is essentially a motorcycle with a soda can on the outside. It's still legal. My 89 Civic doesn't have airbags and it's still legal.

I think that if safety was really the issue they would phase out the old vehicles as well. i can't help but think that the safety standards are just a way to make cheap (lighter and less profitable) cars less advantageous to produce. Thanks to lobbyists for that.

One thing I do agree that should be changed is the "no seatbelt" requirement in testing that someone else mentioned on another thread. Instead, there could ba a "seatbelt class" of small cars (most likely flooding in from Europe and Japan) that "suddenly" meet US safety standards because the crash dummy was wearing a seatbelt.

Finally, a crash dummy as smart as (some) humans.

That way, the car could be sold with a yellow/black standout sticker that says "DRIVING WITHOUT WEARING A SEATBELT WILL RESULT IN AUTOMATIC FINE REGARDLESS AND INCLUSIVE OF CURRENT STATE LAW".

CarloSW2

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by cfg83

That way, the car could be sold with a yellow/black standout sticker that says "DRIVING WITHOUT WEARING A SEATBELT WILL RESULT IN AUTOMATIC FINE REGARDLESS AND INCLUSIVE OF CURRENT STATE LAW".

Make it an computer requirement that all occupied seats need to have their seatbelt buckled in order for the engine to start/run

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by trebuchet03

Make it an computer requirement that all occupied seats need to have their seatbelt buckled in order for the engine to start/run

I could live with that... then again I imagine it would be a popular thing to bypass. I'd always be afraid that the sensor would fail.

[CoyoteX]

They did that in the 70s on some cars, they didn't start unless the seatbelt was latched on any seat that was occupied. All most people did was latch the belt on the seat then sit on it

[psyshack]

GM is a waist of time and energy. They couldnt do the right thing for 4 times the money they are loosing now,,, in profits.

They had the Tahoe commercial contest. What idiots. Then the Hybrid Vue. Its junk. Then here comes a look at Volt. This is a platform they have been working on for sometime. Anybody that has followed auto's knew about this before the auto show splash. And its a great idea. Hell GM is a world leader in hybrids... Locomotive and marine systems. So they are now back peddling on Volt. I gave up on reading there excuses. And now they want a vote on these cars. Why cant they just pull there heads out and build the 3 door and the little wagon,,, or what ever you call little box's like that.

I know a lot of folks around here like little stripper cars and the basic FE they have. Heck Ive owned a Festiva ,,, was raised in Fiats. Learned to drive on a 850 Coupe. But there is no way in hell I'd drive or own a Metro. When I bought my Festiva Metro's were on the market and they couldn't give them away around here. Everybody I know that purchased one had nothing but trouble out of them. They did not hold up well at all. You cant hardly find one now at all around here. But the old beat up Festivas are still on the road. As are the Honda's of that time.

I honestly think the subcompacts and mini cars will never truthfully catch on in America. And the days of a car with no air bags and other safety equipment are numbered. Especially if folks do start looking closer at Civic, Corolla, Accord and Camry's closer. And that is what Americans will embrace. If there going to be forced into smaller cars,,,AND trucks. Then air bags and such will be a must to get folks in such offerings that have a mind set that bigger is safer.

What ticks me off is what the manufactures offer to start with. Take my R-18 Civic. It was designed to be lean burn. But they cant have that with hybrid being the buzz word. The modern VX engine would have ruined the hybrid efforts. So right there Honda blew it in the marketing dept. and the board room.

Take Yaris. I like the car. It reminds me of my Festiva. I like everything but the darn ugly dash and its mpg. Im sure it runs cleaner than Festiva. But its mpg almost sucks. Also how in the world are you going to carry around two small children in cars seats in a Yaris sedan. I can get both of my young grandaughters in the Civic. But I do have to move my drivers seat forward a bit. I couldnt get them in Yaris and drive it. We can get them in Accord with room and comfort. And why is it Yaris does not get better mpg than my Festiva did,,,, Beats me???

If I had to have a young family hauler. Maybe Fit would fill the bill. But it doesn't do any better than Civic mpg wise. Every time I see a Fit it reminds me of those god awful Lumina Mini van things GM built. (shuddering)

I don't think folks need to be pushing so much for little tin can mini cars and haulers so much as they need to be pushing for the better internal combustion engine tech. I think it would be much more reasonable a feat to get folks out of there Impalas and into Accords than expect folks to go from Accords to tin cans.

psy

[BeeUU]

Originally Posted by theclencher

I appreciate seat belt effectiveness but I don't like their use legislated as mandatory. Same with helmets. It's America dang it. The slippery slope could lead to legislated diet and exercise requirements too, among other Big Brother madness.

Too late, we are already have legislated stability control, tire pressure monitoring and air bags and the stupid labels that are required by airbags. I think ABS is not required, but try finding a car without. We are sliding further. Soon those little black boxes that record "data" for the manufactures, and they happen to not tell anyone about will be mandatory too. On-star is creepy too. E-mails on my car status.....yikes.

I would take a small car any day, any small car. As long as it does not look like a truck. I like trucks too, dont get me wrong. But what is extremely obnoxious is cars that look like trucks, say the HHR, Caiber, the "restyled" Aveo, what remains of the GM minivans or the GM triplets that started this thread.

The Beat is close but it is probably 65 inches tall.....

GM is showing some brilliance, despite the mouthpiece. I have to say that most of the new offerings, trucks/cross-overs in particular, have some decent finish, designs and look "rich". I hope this will carry over to the new car lines that are nearly available. Please make them look like cars!!