Global warming--not convinced

[skewbe]

If we are going to analyze motivation, let's not pretend that the status-quo doesn't have a strong motivation to NOT do or believe anything different, almost by definition.

It becomes a real tough sell when we are part of the problem, it is very hard for us to see ourselves as anything but good, even convicted felons will come up with bizzare reasoning to believe they are really good and important. It is so primary to our current mindset, perhaps genetically encoded. But it is important to understand that crap flows downhill, and there is always someone "below" you.


But I must take exception, these 2500 folks are professionals, risking their reputation and livelyhood by asserting the accurateness of the report, we have no evidence for slanderous speculations, though that is a wonderful status-quo tool.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Yesh, I tend to disagree with the research/money angle too. Especially if we compare to amount of money fossil fuel owners make to all the money invested in climate research per year... Guess which one is larger.

[cfg83]

omgwtfbyobbq -

Originally Posted by omgwtfbyobbq

Yesh, I tend to disagree with the research/money angle too. Especially if we compare to amount of money fossil fuel owners make to all the money invested in climate research per year... Guess which one is larger.

Ha ha. From my POV, getting 2500 scientists to agree is like herding cats. I think there are more motivations for them to disagree, oil money being one of them.

CarloSW2

[skewbe]

7 words:
Donald Rumsfeld, Gilead, Avian Flu, Huge profits
http://mercola.com/blog/2005/oct/19/...avian_flu_hoax

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

if you recall, i do support taking care of the environment. we must slow and eventually eliminate as much pollution as possible. the greatest idea behind GW is politics. it's ironic though, because the same politicians that push for green legislation consume incredible amounts of fuels and emit those greenhouse gases. let's go in a direction that allows our economy to continue to function and stop proliferation of taxes. as for the "me first" attitude--well, that goes way beyond GW and ploitics. your final point reminds me that darwin confessed on his death bed that he didn't find the missing link, just a new species of primate. evolution has been considered a constant for some time, and now it is fundamentally falling apart. now my sources tell me the next great anti-God explanation of life is that aliens brought us here. beam me up scotty!

Is you're entire rant based on the proliferation of taxes and consumption of the politicians you put in place? Just curious as this seems to be a common theme in your posts.

evolution has been considered a constant for some time, and now it is fundamentally falling apart.

As you, nor I are authorities on this matter -- I'll put my own opinion on there. I personally, find that it's not falling apart - it's just not going anywhere. But, follow this for a moment.

You're a captain of Cargo Ship. Your navigator tell you that if the current wind conditions may push your ship into a shoal. As we can't test this directly - it is a theory. Do you:
a) disregard as it's only a theory - and you only act on laws.
b) propose your own theory that wind thermals will reduce the draft of your vessel.
c) take evasive action as the consequences are too high.

The great thing about a theory is that it can change - based on new information. HOWEVER, to disregard the consequences because it's not law.... Your ship is going to be up on those rocks :/ The consequences are enough for over 150 nations to start taking action. If we didn't come up with a vaccination for Polio - someone else, in another country will. Be a leader, or follow. And you complain about taxes.

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What's great is that greener options continuously prove to be the cheaper way to go. Ask Google or Microsoft. Ask my University about their living roof atop their student union.

Taxes are guaranteed. But it's only money. And to gripe about taxes on pollution while saying "i do support taking care of the environment." Really, it's an insult you'd think we're that stupid.


And again, the idea behind GW came from a mathematician
Jean Baptiste Joseph Fourier --> Global Temperature Increase Trends - 1824
Laureate Svante Arrhenius --> Link between CO2 and greenhouse effect (a term he coined) - Late 19th century

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once heard a scientist discuss the exponential factor concerning mankind. more people,more hatred,more crime=our desruction. believe that WILL happen long before GW!

It has nothing to do with hatred -- that is something of scripture. It has everything to do with food supply. A microcosm example being the Canary Islands. As of a few years, each farmer in America feeds 121 people in America compared to 50 or so years ago, each farmer fed 4-6 people... There is a cap. And China knows better than anyone else that emissions reduce the productivity of their farmers.

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Again, I don't care if GW is really just a toddler with a mediocre fever. I care that a group of respected people have given a scenario and have said that it is necessary to take evasive action. Of course someone is going to disagree and propose an alternate theory (welcome to academia my friend). Weigh your options as this planet existed long before us, it will exist long after us.

[1993CivicVX]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

sorry, off the subject but wanted to show you your beloved politicians in another light. these wonderful people have stock in the pharmicutical industry who lobbies the fda and ftc. through connections pockets are filled to pass drugs that are killing people. some are killed immediately, others over time. this is the right and left by the way. again, the interest of "the people" takes a back seat to political agendas and pockets of the elite! guess who's at the top of sales of the fortune 500--several drug companies. we are paying them to kill us! CONSPIRACY!!!

Yeah, I tend to agree that this is how our world and the system works.

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

by the way, if you were to breath volcanic ash it would kill you as well!!!

nu uh, once there was this guy who breathed some ash and he didn't die, so that whole volcanic ash theory is falling apart.

[skewbe]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

i think mankind is inherently evil(selfish)

And this was by design?!? Ye Gods!!

[trebuchet03]

Originally Posted by bowtieguy

in the orlando sentinel today, there's an article about drilling for fossil fuels under the arctic ocean. the GW fear is that methane gas(a huge deposit) will be released via the drilling. goes on to say scientists think similar events occured in ANCIENT PAST between ice ages contributing to ancient GW. yes, the vikings were animals and now we know they did ancient drilling because we also know natural phenomina can't affect GW. maybe it was the atlantians instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I happened to read that article too.... Here's the problem - you got your information from a local news media outlet. The more sensational it is, the more you're going to talk about it (and their ad prices go up). There's sizable deposits frozen methane all over the planet and we likely have not discovered all of them. But, GW is not the main concern for most conservation organizations that have protested. The drilling is very close to a wildlife refuge that you pay for, in taxes, yearly. The problem is - the filed EIS is outdated, the MMS never considered the risk and impact of spills nor a complete analysis if drilling impact including air traffic after drilling.

It's not drilling in open water - the plan calls for Ice breaker ships. Shell has not provided adequate support in the event of a spill, nor a timetable for response and completion. There's more, including local culture, bu t GW is nowhere near the front of that argument.

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A recap

...would like to save more than just gas.

i do support taking care of the environment--tangible pollution must be reduced(ended in the future).

we must absolutely reduce energy consumption. we must also reduce(eventually eliminate) as much pollution as possible.

i'm in favor of conservation, just not at the expense of new taxes and crippling our economy.

DON'T raise my taxes when the legislaters(tax increasers) are contributing(emitting) more than most!!!

probably getting old but, taxation is not the answer.

my local utility co. is about to add a $6.35 "fee" to help clean up area lakes.

how much is enough? 30,50,90% of our hard earned money.

How much is enough? When you can say - "I've fallen on my sword, but at least I didn't miss the point." That's when it's enough. Don't get me wrong, I'm the first on the phone when it comes to unjust taxation. But when you have caused a problem - you fix it, and pay for it. So the local utility is cleaning up a mess - unless you're out there living in the wild by yourself - you're responsible because you live in a society that supported the offending industry. And don't give me the whole "It wasn't me" or "It's my money" - United We Stand. And grow up, it's just money. Who's your congressman? I'll make the phone call for you if you feel like complaining a bit more about taxes.


Telco put it right

You'll find that when you talk to someone not motivated by money that you get more correct information.

[skewbe]

I dare say that given your current condition, there is no amount of words that could convince you of environmental change, evolution, earth is round, or any other "best guesses" that we have to work with based on the existing evidence.

Perhaps I was foolish to try.