Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMak
From all the research I've done -- limited, and looking at luxury vehicles only -- when comparing a gasoline hybrid to the identical vehicle except with a diesel engine, diesel came out the clear winner in terms of lower purchase price, and lower fuel costs over the lifetime of the vehicle. I can't imagine a scenario if which adding the electric propulsion and storage system would lower the vehicle's purchase price, or be offset by fuel savings over the life of the vehicle.
My research is the reason why I'm driving a diesel and not a hybrid. When I compared my 2015 Audi Q5 3.0L diesel to the equivalent gas/electric hybrid, the hybrid had only slightly better fuel economy in the city, but was otherwise worse in all respects compared to the diesel.
I remain a fan of (properly designed and operating) diesel over today's gasoline or gasoline/electric hybrids.
Mind you, that might change after I get my dieselgate fix (a requirement to get the settlement cash of CAD$7,500.)
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Ownership costs are a subjective thing, and come down to local fuel prices and the individual's drive cycle.
Diesel here is more stable in price, but even with the recent increase in gas prices, it is still 30 to 45 cents more a gallon than regular gasoline; not to long ago it was 60 cents more. With my local prices, the diesel Cruze will cost more to run than the gas model. Dealers have to discount the diesel to move it.
Then for those driving in traffic, which is common around Philadelphia, a hybrid will crush a diesel in fuel economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoT
We already have EV London taxis here with petrol range extenders. Clean diesel could be a natural progression.
https://www.levc.com/ |
Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoT
I don't see the point to hybrids but an EV with a range extender is a totally different vehicle. Mind you, a diesel hybrid may offer even better economy than a straight diesel!
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Gasoline engines and electric motors have a better synergy going on in their torque curves. You have high torque from the motor at start on slow speeds, and torque from the engine when it is at higher speeds when the torque has dropped from the motor. Diesels produce their torque down low already, so that might keep the potential gains of a diesel hybrid lower than in comparison to the gas one.
Then there is the simple economics that keeps it from mostly. A full hybrid system and diesel with working emission controls both add a few thousand to the price of the basic gasoline model. That makes both alone a tough sell in the US. Combine them, and the price will likely be off putting for the resulting economy in markets with higher fuel costs.
Bosch's fix reported here isn't going to drastically lower the costs for the diesel emission system; it still requires SCR. It is just improving its performance.
That said, the Chevy diesel Cruze and Equinox here can be called micro-hybrids; they come standard with auto start/stop. The mild hybrid systems coming to market might be worthwhile on a diesel. Their low cost regulations means that a traditional ICE car will become the exception in the future.
A diesel might work better as a generator for a series hybrid range extender, but there is still going to be the emission control costs. Then when the EV range is in the 80 to 100 mile range(EPA), the fuel economy in hybrid mode becomes less important, and what makes an ICE technology better will be different.
Mazda is coming out with a EREV that uses a Wankel rotary. Historically, rotaries have not been as efficient or as clean as a piston gas engine. They do have a high power to weight ratio. Combined with small size, they might be the better choice for a range extender because they could be easier to fit in a car body with a larger battery pack.
Then Audi has a pilot plant that makes a synthetic crude(blue crude) from excess renewable electric, water, and waste carbon dioxide from an adjoining plant. It's a light, sweet crude that can easily be refined into diesel. Despite the extra cost and weight, the availability of such non-fossil fuels could make a diesel range extender better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draigflag
You would assume so, but the hybrid diesels currently on offer don't actually get that good economy. Audi, Citroen, land rover, Mercedes, Peugeot, Renault, VW, Volvo all have diesel hybrids, and of the reviews I've read thus far, they struggle to get much more than 40 MPG. I've said it before and I'm sure you'll agree, hybrid systems rarely make a car more efficient, they're usually just better for performance. Do have a soft spot for the Volvo V60 though, nice 2.4 diesel, plug in capability and 0-60 in just 5.8 seconds.
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Not true when it comes to the Hybrid; the Prius.
The Corolla and Cruze are close in size to the Prius. The Prius' combined EPA is 19mpg more than their 33mpg, and people get it in regular driving.
The Cruze diesel does 2/7/4 better in city/highway/combined than its gas sibling, but also has start/stop and three extra gears on the automatic in order to achieve that.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...id=39142&#tab1
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