Not everyone wants a large diesel engine

[litesong]

In 2013 I was interested in a Chevy manual EcoCruze, but couldn't get it for less than $20000. Got a 2013 auto Elantra for $15,500.

In June 2015 I was interested in a Chevy diesel Cruze, but couldn't get it for less than $24,000. Got a 2016 manual Elantra for $12,800.

With the VW diesel pollution scandal & other diesels suspect, I'm glad the EcoCruze, diesel Cruze & the VW diesel were over-priced. Oh, yeah....my auto & manual Elantras get 43-46+ mpg on the road. Must a bin all them leadfooters complainin' 'bout the Elantra mpg.

[gregsfc]

No bigger fan than me of diesel-engine technologies for light-duty pickup trucks, as I've wanted and needed a pickup for a few years but have been holding out for a small diesel. I already knew that once they finally arrived in the market they'd be thousands more due to strict emissions laws in U.S., and I understand the cost dilemma faced by OEMs in offering them to Americans, but still hoped for a 4 cylinder in a mid-size or 1/2-ton with a six cylinder and pay maybe four or five thousand more than a base model. I'm that much of a diesel fan.

They finally came with an Ecodiesel in the Ram and Duramax in the Colorado/Canyon. I gave up and got the lightest and smallest Ecoboost I could get in the F150 Reg cab, 2wd, short bed and 3.31 reg rear axle. So far can achieve 21+ in mixed and conservative driving. I think I could do much, much better mpg wise with Colorado/Canyon Duramax, but herein lies the problem. Not only do the manufacturers ask for a $4K-$5K premium, they offer them only in larger configurations and only in highly featured trucks, so what you end up with is the possibility to buy an F150 and get over 20 mpg with a 2.7 Ecoboost in a 4167 pound 1/2-ton truck for around $27K, or choose a more-truck-than-I-need Ram Ecodiesel for over $38K and 26 mpg, or more-cab-than-I-need-and-more towing-features-than-I-need Colorado/Canyon Duramax for over $34K and 28-29 mpg.

This strict, unnecessary NOx limit placed on diesel autos in the U.S. keep us from getting great diesel deals and vehicles at reasonable prices, so now I'm stuck with a pretty good gas guzzler.

And please everyone...quit calling Ram trucks "Dodge". Ram has been separated from the Dodge badge now for a few years and there has never been a Dodge Ram 1500 truck with a diesel engine. It's a Ram and only a Ram.

[Draigflag]

Do you guys get the new Mitsubishi L200 there? A really nice looking truck, it's won every award going over here including best off road performance, best towing capacity, best maneuverability, best economy, lowest emissions for its class etc etc. It can tow about 8000 lbs, but like I said, for its size that's best in class. In the road tests I've read it gets between 35 and 40 UK MPG, maybe closer to 50 on the highway which is incredible for a big truck.

[financialnusource]

Hello, There are many options and styles of used Dodge trucks although some are harder to find than others.

There is the popular Ram series that has been around for many years. The Ram is Dodges full sized trucks. There is the Ram 1500 1/2 ton, 2500 3/4 truck and the 3500 1 ton truck.You can learn more about the diesel engine vehicles at Kjøp Dieselmotordeler Eksklusivt via dieselgrossisten.no.


One model that is not so easy to find is the Dodge Ramcharger. This was a vehicle that was built to compete against the Chevrolet full size K5 Blazer and the full size Ford Bronco.

[JAS21]

Now Isuzu have the 1.9Ltr Engine, for the truck and Body-on-Frame SUV. It will not be available in Thailand until well into 2016 though.

We have just bought the New Ford Everest Titanium Plus 3.2L 5 Cyl 4WD. Sounds great and is quick.

[gregsfc]

The big break through that could make small diesels more prevalent and popular in the N America is a future technological advancement or series of advancements that could result in much cheaper, much less complicated, and more packable exhaust-treatment systems for diesel power trains, which right now is such a cost and engineering constraint. The current situation puts diesels and hybrids nearly on-par with each other from a cost standpoint. Such a break through in diesel technologies is far more likely than with hybrid technologies, as parallel hybrids will always require two power storage systems, two fuels, two power delivery systems, and two drive systems that must work in parallel. Add to that, battery technologies have to come along technologically to provide much more range without adding weight, and simultaneously become much, much cheaper. From a pure engineering standpoint, I personally believe it is much more likely that the exhaust-treatment hurdle could be more easily met than making the parallel hybrid much more cost feasible; at least in the short term. And, at least in the pickup truck American market, this more marketable diesel would be very welcome with the American pickup truck consumer. Unlike before 2010, American/Canadian consumers have now learned how good modern diesels are with respect to refinement, and pickup truck consumers have now learned the value of low-end torque with only adequate horsepower.

Even though diesels have become more palatable to our driving tastes overall lately, there is still a few detractors to outright mainstream acceptance, even if the cost and engineering hurdles are met:

Detractor #1. There will still be a certain percentage of pickup truck prospective buyers over here that give much credence to 1/4-mile and 0-60 times, rather than real-world, usable capability being the main consideration. And it is in this area, on the drag strip, where a gas engine, be it naturally-aspired or otherwise, will likely always have the advantage over diesels, because they rev so quickly and power and torque move up the dyno in a linear fashion. It is only when extreme performance diesels are planted in these same vehicles, like we have in the heavy-duty category, where they can compete on the drag strip. But the problem here is that the mpg advantage is diminished in favor of overkill power and torque. And that leads to detractor #2.

Detractor #2. There is a certain percentage of American pickup truck enthusiasts who have become accustomed to the amazingly powerful diesels found in the heavy-duty trucks and those persons think of these performance kings when they think of diesels; not the fuel-saving qualities, and some of these folks don't even know an equally-performing diesel can get better mpg. These persons won't accept smaller, more frugal diesel options and hate them, which has been opinionated in this very thread with respect to the Ram Ecodiesel and the little Duramax. Many truckers want and expect something like the Cummins 5.0 V8 in the 1/2-dury Ram, which admittedly would be the performance king even beyond the Hemi V8; but such an engine would not increase mpg significantly in any driving situation, and such an engine would be even more costly planted in a pickup truck than a more reasonably-capable diesel.

Detractor #3. There is a large group of Americans who have a view that our transportation system needs to eventually be electrified; and mentioning anything that allows an ICE-powered vehicle to compete with another technology that moves us closer to that electrification goal is met with strong arguments, much of which are manufactured science, claiming diesels are still dirty and less refined than they are in reality. They also promote ideas that diesel fuel is hard to find; it's refinement and burning create more greenhouse gases than they do in reality; that the fuel is always a dollar per gallon more throughout every area of the country; and then they'll minimize the positives, such as how flex-fuel compression-ignition can be made, the higher energy density of the fuel; the lower hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide tendencies of engine-out performance, the lower energy requirement to produce the fuel, etc. These fallacies are not always intentional; many of these electrification enthusiasts simply have not followed the industry or technologies and don't realize how far diesel technologies have come, since they live in America where the products have not been in our mainstream and therefore they think of old semi trucks and other big machines when they think of diesels.

Detractor #4. This one is legitimate. Even to the diesel fanatic, like myself, the last nine years of clean diesel products have left a bad taste in our mouths with respect to complexity, reliability, and durability, and cost-versus benefit. The systems employed to make them clean have been problematic, expensive to repair and maintain, and expensive to buy. Right before the new regulations came in to effect (2004-2006) some really good products hit our market, albeit for a short time. The 3.2 I6 and 3.0 V6 from Mercedes Benz; the 1.9-liter TDI with unit injection fro VW; the 2.8-liter Jeep Liberty via VMI, all provided Americans a glimpse of modern, refined diesels wit superior mpg and torque, and they could be purchased for a mere $1K-$2K more than the base gas engine, but this was before the fuel-neutral regulations came starting in 2007, and that's when things went bad. In order to get beyond this new, bad reputation, diesels are going to have to get: cheaper, cheaper to maintain, and built with better reliability and durability. The technology has gone through a period of bad times, not unlike gas-power experience with the advent of unleaded gas and catalytic converters back in the late 70s.

So I had to have a truck; wanted and needed only a regular cab, and even though there were two diesel choices in the class of truck I was looking for, there was not really a good diesel choice. So I ended up with a Ford F150 with a 2.7 EB rather than a preferred diesel, because with the F150, I could get the low-end torque I prefer via turbo-charged DI spark-ignition at my price point under $28K; compared to the cheapest diesel in a compact truck starting at $34K, and the cheapest in a full-size truck starting @ $38K. Right now, for me, diesel is not even in the game. Cost reduction is the key for bringing diesels to all configurations and trim levels at a reasonable price, and that just isn't where we are at.

[Draigflag]

That was a fair and very factual review, thanks for writing it. As you say, one of the main reasons people are still so anti diesel in the US it seems is because the diesel products on sale there are not as good as they can be, the "best of the best" simply aren't for sale. For example you might only be able to purchase one or two diesel variants of the VW Golf, the more powerful and/or more efficient smaller versions aren't as readily available as they are here, and as diesels only make up less than 5% of the market over there, people's opinions of them are very outdated as has been evident from many discussions from various members on this forum. And as far as I can tell, the ULTRA effecient 60-70 MPG diesels you find in smaller cars here are non existent there, so the real economy benefits don't exist either.

The scr (selected catalytic reduction) systems fitted to modern diesels here are not that expensive either, and cut N0X by 90% not to mention C02 which is already low for diesels by about 4%.

[trollbait]

Because of the limited availability of diesels, I am sure the manufacturers also take advantage of those that really want one by only offering it on higher trim models. The Jetta is what comes to mind. Not the best example because of VW's cheating, but the price wasn't that great compared to a comparably equipped gas model, but you had to get at least the mid grade trim to get the diesel. it simply wasn't available in a base trim car.

[Draigflag]

That's a shame as it gives the false impression that diesels are expensive and overpriced. Not the case here, there are some very cheap basic diesels out there if you want one. Admittedly they are nearly always still slightly more expensive, by about £1000-£1500, unless you buy a premium luxury car, BMW, Mercedes, Audi then the performance diesels can be cheaper than the petrols (despite identical 0-60 times) People sometimes forget they depreciate less too so money spent initially is claimed back when you move the car on to the next owner.

[gregsfc]

Update: Diesel disparity is only getting worse in US/Canada. The mid-size Chevrolet Colorado/ GMC Canyon introduction for 2015 model year was followed up with a great diesel prospect for 2016. But GM decided, as trollbait has suggested, that a really good opportunity for a right-powered diesel in this class would be used only as an opportunity for GM to gain some more margin.

GM made some progress reducing costs for a N. American diesel with this 2.8L I4 Duramax, employing the first solenoid injectors since clean diesel began in 2007 and a cast-iron block. The news was encouraging that these cost break throughs may result in an affordable, FE diesel in a modern small truck. That is until the
pricing and availability was announced. Instead of a mid-size 4 cylinder diesel planted in the configurations and trim levels that it would have been most suited for; a runaround, light-duty, high FE, mid-size truck for handy men, contractors, and commuters who need a truck for weekend projects and recreation; GM holds the diesel out for only the four full doors, the highest trim levels, and with every available feature as a max towing version.

So GM has put together a nice, well-designed, mid-size pickup duo that has a starting price at or about $22K, but the lowest-priced diesel version is at or about $34K. Not exactly an engine for the masses.