Wanted: crank pulley tool so I can change the timing belt on my Civic VX

[monroe74]

Wouldn't that mean that in a pile on a shelf with little air flow, the air will stay somewhat saturated

That sounds right to me. My guess also is that relative humidity would make a difference. Air conditioning would make things worse.

I'm probably splitting hairs worrying about the freshness of the belt. Maybe this might matter if the belt has been sitting in the sun since '92. Otherwise probably not.

[theholycow]

Any news?

I wore gloves while working today. They are $1 latex-dipped cotton gloves that I can kinda tolerate and they prevented me from getting too much icky automotive fluid on my hands although I did have to take them off for some of the work.

[monroe74]

OK, I did the job today (Wednesday), and everything turned out great. I figure I might as well describe a few things about my experience in case it might help someone else.

I was all set to do the job on Saturday. The belt was supposed to be at the dealer early on Saturday, but it didn't get there until today. This was because of a strange problem I ran into with the estore.honda site. I won't bother describing it. It seems like a rare bug and hopefully they'll fix it soon. Anyway, estore.honda was the cheapest way I could find to get a genuine Honda belt. It works out to be a good deal because it gives you an option to pick up at your local dealer, and then shipping is free. And it should be quick (if you don't run into that bug). Order today, pick it up at the dealer tomorrow.

To loosen that bolt, I wasted a lot of time doing things the wrong way. Here are some things I tried that I should have skipped. A friend of mine has a Dewalt electric impact wrench. Looks like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/tools-h...it-151523.html

Rated at 345 ft-lb. I borrowed it. It did nothing. The bolt just laughed at it.

I also broke a socket and a socket extension bar. Then I realized I needed to use impact-rated stuff. I also wasted time using various levers that were too short. I also wasted time trying to find the right tools at Sears, Home Depot and Lowes. None of them had what I needed. For example, none of them had really long breaker bars, and none of them had impact-type extension bars.

It's further away, but finally I realized I needed to go to Harbor Freight. They had what I needed, and at great prices. So here's exactly what I used in the end, and it worked great:

Breaker bar. 25". 1/2" drive. $10.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-driv...bar-67933.html

Impact socket. 17mm. 1/2" drive. six point. $3.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/17mm-x-...ket-67787.html

That's a deep socket. They also have a non-deep one for $2.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/17mm-x-...ket-67825.html

Probably either would work, but I got the deep one.

10" Quick Release Impact Extension Bar. 1/2" drive. $6.99.
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch...bar-98208.html

I got two of these, to be long enough to reach past the fender. I was concerned about slack or play in using two of them, but they fit tightly and this was not a problem.

And I did get one thing at Home Depot that was essential:

Black pipe. 1" x 60". $16.72.
http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-Pi...atalogId=10053

1" is the perfect diameter to be a nice, tight, secure fit around the handle of the Harbor Freight breaker bar. And 60" was the perfect length. I wasted a lot of time trying to use shorter levers, but I really and truly needed the full 60". Above I cited this Honda service bulletin:

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/A930200.pdf

They say this: "Try a 36-inch breaker bar if you have one (though there may be times when a bar 48 ? 60 inches long would be nice)." Well, in my case 36 and 48 weren't good enough. I needed 60.

That bulletin also suggests putting motor oil on the threads (but not the washer), prior to reassembly. So I did that.

Anyway, that's $45.68 for those tools. Not bad. It's stuff I can use.

Once I finally used the right combination of tools (what I just listed, especially the 60" lever), getting the bolt to yield was a cinch. It took a few seconds. It was important to use a jack stand to support the extension bar near the end of the lever (as discussed in comments above).

I also splurged on safety glasses for $1.99 (Harbor Freight). I was breaking various sockets and extension bars (until I realized I needed to use impact stuff), so lots of sharp metal was flying through the air.

I was reluctant to use that 60" lever, because I thought for sure I would break something. I figured most likely I was going to snap the head on the breaker bar. But all that Harbor Freight stuff (breaker bar, 2 impact extensions, impact socket) took the abuse and didn't complain. What a relief to hear a loud snap and realize it was the bolt finally yielding, and not another tool breaking.

This final tool setup felt quite safe and stable, because that 1" pipe is such a perfect fit on the Harbor Freight breaker bar. No slack. I think it would feel unsafe if the fit was sloppy.

Aside from the saga of loosening this one bolt, the job was fairly simple. Everything is pretty easy to get at, and everything came apart and went back together just the way it should. And loosening this bolt was hard only because it took me a while to figure out the right combination of tools that was required.

hondaguy, your tool worked great, and it was essential, so thanks again for your ingenuity and kindness.

holycow, once I loosened that bolt, I found that for the rest of the job I wanted gloves off, mostly. But for the heavy work of cracking that bolt, I was definitely happy to have my gloves on.

At Harbor Freight, they had a huge display of gloves, many different kinds. But I didn't see anything I especially liked. Nothing like what I have.

[theholycow]

Wow, great work on acquiring and putting the right combination of tools together and getting the job done!

I'm surprised that the pipe was so expensive.

[monroe74]

Yes, it's a shame I had to pay so much for that pipe. That price is pretty exorbitant. If I had been patient and willing to scrounge around probably I could have found something suitable at the dump. But by that point in the day I was getting pretty frustrated and out of patience. In my narrative above I left out lots of boring details about all the gas and time I wasted running around to different stores.

For example, in the longer, more detailed version of the story, I actually went to Harbor Freight twice. Because the first time I bought just one 10" impact extension, thinking my old regular 10" extension would work fine with it. But then I broke my old extension, and all the local stores couldn't sell me another impact extension. So I had to go all the way back to Harbor Freight to get another impact extension.

So aside from all the trips to Sears, Home Depot and Lowes, that was two trips to Harbor Freight, 30 miles each way. So that was 120 miles of driving just for Harbor Freight. And of course all this driving is in my other car, the Sienna, which only gets about 18 mpg (AWD). So I spent about $25 in gas just for Harbor Freight. I could have dropped the Civic off the jack and used that for all these trips, since I hadn't really taken anything apart yet, but I was too lazy. And of course each time I ran off looking for something, I thought that was the last thing I would need.

The amount of time I spent sitting in traffic definitely exceeded the amount of time I spent actually working on the car.

Anyway, I'm pleased that pipe is very strong, and exactly the right length and diameter, so I decided to just grab it. I think you can tell I'm a cheapskate, but in this case I figured that running around looking for a bargain just wasn't worth it.

[theholycow]

I totally understand your frustration. My projects often go exactly like that.

I'm guessing that you didn't want to risk breaking your favorite breaker bar on this job, and that's why you bought one to use the pipe on?

[monroe74]

No, not really. I do have that Herbrand 12" breaker bar that's 50 years old, but it doesn't have much sentimental or real value, so I wouldn't mind breaking it. I never tried the 60" pipe on it, but that was only because of the way the process evolved.

I started out knowing that a 12" lever wouldn't be enough, and knowing that I could get a 25" breaker bar at HF for just eleven bucks. I also started out thinking it would be great to not use a pipe at all. Because I didn't have a good one, and because I was afraid of a cheater pipe slipping and then I get hurt. So the picture I had when I started was that the only lever I needed was that 25" breaker bar.

Then I discovered that I needed a lever much longer than 25". For a while I considered buying a longer breaker bar. HF doesn't have a longer one, but Sears online shows a 40" breaker bar, 1" drive. I thought about that. But it's expensive, and the store didn't have it, so I let go of that idea. Then I went looking for a pipe, and ended up with that 1" x 60" black pipe.

Once I had that pipe, I could have used it with my 12" breaker bar, but at this point I already had the 25" breaker bar, so that made more sense.

Also, surprisingly, the inexpensive HF 25" breaker bar has a very substantial head on the end (the joint). Much heftier than what I have on my old 12" breaker bar. The HF bar just has a lot more metal on the end. The situation is sort of the opposite of what one would expect. The old tool built in the US in the fifties, by a respected tool company, is built not as heavily as the cheap tool made in Taiwan and sold by HF. To be fair, though, one designer was thinking of a 12" handle, and the other was thinking of a 25" handle.

Above I posted a photo of my old breaker bar:

http://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artif...ped_inset3.jpg

The HF 25" breaker bar is here:

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-driv...bar-67933.html

It's hard to tell from the picture, but the fitting on the end of the HF item is quite thick and hefty. I think it's stronger than the Herbrand. So I have a feeling the 12" bar would have broken if I had put the pipe on it, but I wasn't really going out of my way to protect it.

By the way, the socket and extension I broke are both old Herbrand items. I don't really care. They had a good life. Now instead I have impact items from HF that were cheap and will probably last forever.

[theholycow]

The 3 piece Harbor Freight breaker bar set I bought a few years ago (probably for $10) has the same head design as your old Herbrand and is straight rod until a rubber handle on the end, rather than an integral metal grip.

One thing that isn't visibly obvious is the metallurgical composition. When it comes to a 60" pipe on a breaker bar, metal quality becomes important.

On one hand, if Herband made quality stuff then it has high quality metal - by 60 year old standards, with the technology of that time. It's also had 50-60 years of age, who knows how many fatigue cycles, etc.

On the other hand, we can assume that the cheap China/Taiwan-made stuff from Harbor freight has relatively cheap metal - by today's standards. I'm sure it's not the worst of the crappy metal made from mixed scrap but it's certainly not premium.

You know, this discussion reminds me...I was recently looking at fancy-schmancy new ratchets with comfortable looking handles, but I'd have to still use my old one for going to the junkyard. I have a perfect length of exactly the right thick-wall aluminum pipe for it, which is lightweight (important at the junkyard), fits securely, gives me the leverage I need, and gives me a decent enough grip.

[monroe74]

OK, here are a couple of photos:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_5384.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_5383.jpg

Obviously, the shiny one is better. Just kidding!

They both look pretty strong, but I'm impressed at the amount of metal on the HF item. And I'm impressed that it didn't bust when I put that 60" pipe on it!

I wonder if your HF tool looks the same as this one.

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Originally Posted by monroe74

OK, here are a couple of photos:

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_5384.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_5383.jpg

Obviously, the shiny one is better. Just kidding!

They both look pretty strong, but I'm impressed at the amount of metal on the HF item. And I'm impressed that it didn't bust when I put that 60" pipe on it!

I wonder if your HF tool looks the same as this one.

Hum, I've never seen a breaker bar with that type of end (the newer one). Seems like it would be nice to use, can hold the end in place with out getting pinched, though not for every job as it takes up more head room (but you have both).

Glad to hear it all worked out in the end. I've done this job where it took two days of messing around and putting my back out. Make sure you put the right amount of torque on it. I've under done it before (bad news), and you don't want to over do it as it'll be even harder to get off next time.