Automatics changing my view.

[RedAccord02]

Originally Posted by slurp812

My model doesn't have an automatic as an option at all, of course its a jap car.

Its a Si . The honda civic si is the only car that still strictly manual. i had a 8th gen model still missing it

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by Scott

I have been a stick shift man for years and knew that auto's had draw backs and lower mpg. With the newer transmissions out there, the car companies have made great strides in an efficient automatic trans. So much so, I plan my next car to be an automatic.

You, like many have been misled and are indeed wrong. There are no efficient automatics because manuals will always be more efficient, period. What you're seeing is that the manuals now for sale are intended for a "sporty" audience while the automatics are for the vanilla audience, it used to be the inverse. If you compare the gear ratios of the automatic and manuals, specifically the final drives, you'll quickly see how and why the automatic does better with mileage. Give that manual a final drive and gear ratios matching the automatic and you'll see the MPG fly through the roof. There is a reason why the Civic EX always gets worse mileage than the DX/LX, it's cause the transmission is geared more for performance and less on mileage.

[GasSavers_Erik]

I agree that if the ratios are the same and the driver is educated, the manual trans will beat the auto trans- especially out on the highway.

The drag that reduces the efficiency of all auto transmissions (even when the torque converter is locked up on the highway) is the requirement to be pumping trans fluid all the time- it has to be maintaining a certain pressure on the clutch packs/bands or they will slip.

It takes some energy just to keep everything pressurized - a manual trans doesn't have this energy requirement.

[theholycow]

I have no doubt that in theory a manual can produce better results. I also have no doubt that in the hands of a capable hypermiler, a manual will almost always produce far better results.

However, if we step out of our world, for a common driver the new breed of 5 and 6 speed automatics are as efficient or more efficient than the available manual transmissions.

[imzjustplayin]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I have no doubt that in theory a manual can produce better results. I also have no doubt that in the hands of a capable hypermiler, a manual will almost always produce far better results.

However, if we step out of our world, for a common driver the new breed of 5 and 6 speed automatics are as efficient or more efficient than the available manual transmissions.

Well I feel we're doing a disservice to manual transmissions by saying how advanced and efficient automatics are today when really it's just all gear ratios. Your statement is accurate but I feel it should always be prefaced with the fact that the manufacturers are purposefully doing this due to market conditions, that as a whole, manual transmissions are more efficient than automatics even if they give worse mileage due to choice of gearing.

[bowtieguy]

Originally Posted by theholycow

However, if we step out of our world...

often go there do you?
__________________________________

http://www.autorepairintheknow.com/p...nsmission-cvt/

i think the point is that ATs have come a long way and that for some, it could be a wise(and now, more economical)choice.

[GasSavers_JoeBob]

Originally Posted by theholycow

I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.

All Hail King Bender!!!!

[add|ct]

Originally Posted by 101mpg

That's the thing - it's not actually unloaded entirely! The Malibu Maxx & the Grand Caravan actually stay "in gear" when in neutral - keeps the fluid spinning to cool it I guess. And there is an audible as well as you can feel the vehicle slip out of gear once you get below 5 MPH if you coast to a stop!

Plus you can view it on the MPG readout as well - but it does not entirely go into neutral.

I have this problem with my Stratus. If I shift into neutral the RPMs don't drop into its true idle until nearly stopped(5 MPH and breaking). Finally, the engine goes into an idle of 750rpms and it virtually stops itself on any kind of incline. Before that, the RPMs tend to hang anywhere from 1200-1500rpms prior to coming to a halt.

Originally Posted by RoadWarrior

Park actually lowers the lube pressure or stops running the pump on some vehicles (Chrysler transmissions do it) so idling in Park should take less gas than idling in neutral. Might only notice this with a small motor though, hemi truck it might not make a difference.

I agree. I get similar response from my Dodge Stratus '99 2.4L. I have more success with a smoother idle while in park than in neutral. It takes longer to get to a resting idle, especially when the car isn't warm or is only doing short trips.

I was wondering if I could change over to a better A/T fluid at the next fluid/filter change, though. A mechanic I used to use just did a swap for me around 25k ago and the torque converter feels like it takes a moment to really engage. I get a real dip in RPMs while in electronic O/D(it is a 4 speed), as soon as I hit the last gear doing about 45MPH+ while still accelerating. Its somewhat of a delayed response to get the power I'm asking for, throttle wise. That finally gear is tricky. I

I'd imagine a better A/T fluid at my next change could help some, but perhaps at 122k it could still improve with regular service intervals. 2 owner car. My sister had it from about 25-30k onward after it was a dealer owner vehicle at first. The dealer put over 20k into it in less than a 18 months according to CarFax reports. I purchased it at around 89k miles from one of my sisters. I was in need of a car at the time and couldn't be picky. I wouldn't have paid as much in hindsight.

I can still squeeze 26/27 MPG out on the freeway, but that's doing 70MPH. Perhaps closer to 30 at 55-60 MPH.

[SarkOzy]

Originally Posted by add|ct

I have this problem with my Stratus. If I shift into neutral the RPMs don't drop into its true idle until nearly stopped(5 MPH and breaking). Finally, the engine goes into an idle of 750rpms and it virtually stops itself on any kind of incline. Before that, the RPMs tend to hang anywhere from 1200-1500rpms prior to coming to a halt.



I agree. I get similar response from my Dodge Stratus '99 2.4L. I have more success with a smoother idle while in park than in neutral. It takes longer to get to a resting idle, especially when the car isn't warm or is only doing short trips.

I was wondering if I could change over to a better A/T fluid at the next fluid/filter change, though. A mechanic I used to use just did a swap for me around 25k ago and the torque converter feels like it takes a moment to really engage. I get a real dip in RPMs while in electronic O/D(it is a 4 speed), as soon as I hit the last gear doing about 45MPH+ while still accelerating. Its somewhat of a delayed response to get the power I'm asking for, throttle wise. That finally gear is tricky. I

I'd imagine a better A/T fluid at my next change could help some, but perhaps at 122k it could still improve with regular service intervals. 2 owner car. My sister had it from about 25-30k onward after it was a dealer owner vehicle at first. The dealer put over 20k into it in less than a 18 months according to CarFax reports. I purchased it at around 89k miles from one of my sisters. I was in need of a car at the time and couldn't be picky. I wouldn't have paid as much in hindsight.

I can still squeeze 26/27 MPG out on the freeway, but that's doing 70MPH. Perhaps closer to 30 at 55-60 MPH.

The rev hang is due to the PCM, not the transmission. Neutral and Park are the same thing mechanically, only difference being with the gear selector in Park, the parking pawl is engaged to lock the output shaft.

Some of the things you're talking about are related to the torque converter lockup. At steady speed (usually above 30mph) the converter clutch will lock, creating a 1:1 coupling with the engine and transmission. Modern transmissions will "slip" the converter clutch enough to where it's not generally noticeable.

[GasSavers_Scott]

I wrote this original post in 08, since then in 09, I got the Focus, automatic. The job I had at the time had me in 2 plus hours of traffic. Its been a year since that job and now and I dont sit in traffic anymore for a living. I have to say its boring, I yern for the days when I can press a clutch again. Since the advent of the paddle shifted cars, I would still prefer a manual.