Matt's n600 rebuild project log

[Matt Timion]

With all of the other rebuild threads I thought I would start my own. This is for my Honda n600:



I recently sandblasted the rims and removed as much rust as I could fathom with a wirebrush. I then repainted them with silver wheel paint and also clearcoated them. I will soon be putting the hubcaps back on.

Last week I had a problem where my n600 wouldn't get above 15mph. I replaced the spark plugs, points and condenser, fuel filter, and spark plug wires (much harder than you realize on this car). I am going to replace the oil filter soon.

Although I don't have pictures, today I received a new airbox and fan assembly for my Honda n600. it is the proper one for my year, so I'll be able to utilize the carb heater as it was intended. I took the parts to the car wash today to remove 30 years of caked on oil. I'd say it was mainly a success.

This weekend I will sandblast the airbox and repaint it gloss black. I may also sandblast the heater blower motor and do the same.

Pictures to follow.

[Matt Timion]

it passed safety. The guy at Jiffy Lube loved the car. He said I actually had to replace the wiper blades, but he passed me anyway out of respect :P

I tried to show off the engine and forgot that this thing gets REALLY hot REALLY fast. I pulled back my finger from the hood latch due to the heat and I cut it pretty bad on the grill. The guy got me a towel and a bandaid.

This week's blood has begun.

it hurts to type...

[Matt Timion]

I've been driving the n600 for the past few days. I'm loving it. I get lots of funny looks and a few thumbs up from other drivers.

One guy ahead of me stopped and pulled over to the side of the road only to get right behind me. I'm pretty sure he just wanted a look at the car.

I just received another package in the mail yesterday which contains the rear seat bracket I've been wanting. Now I can finally put the rear seat in and have the interior be almost complete.

[Silveredwings]

I'm not sure if you saw this but when I did, your thread came to mind...
http://www.autoweek.com/files/specia...a/pages/09.htm

[Matt Timion]

Drove the n600 for a long trip yesterday. On the way there it was the best it's ever run. On the way back it was the worst it's ever run. It had a really difficult time accelerating and I had what felt like timing issues.

I'm also pretty certain that the carb is running really rich so the plugs might be fowled by now.

[Matt Timion]

Something is majorly wrong with the n600... well, it could be minor, but any time I misfire all of the time, stall when idling, and lose the ability to accelerate when a giant SUV is behind me, I consider it a major problem.

It could be something as simple as the points jarring loose, or the spark plugs going bad (after 300 miles... yeah, that sounds gooood).

So I've decided that after I finish the basement, redo the kitchen, and move my office out to the garage I'm going to convert this badboy to electric. I'm going to start saving now so it can be an AC motor and Lithium Ion batteries if at all possible.

I think I'm going to keep my old transmission from the sedan to use for the EV conversion. I'll just get some custom axles made up, or I'll learn to weld and make them myself.

Anyway, for now the plan is to see if the engine is in need of help or if it's something simple.

[The Toecutter]

So I've decided that after I finish the basement, redo the kitchen, and move my office out to the garage I'm going to convert this badboy to electric.

YAY!

I'm going to start saving now so it can be an AC motor and Lithium Ion batteries if at all possible.

That would be a $30,000 conversion.

I'd recommend you get a little bit of experience with using EV batteries first. Most people kill their first pack, and I expect to kill mine. Much better to destroy a $1,000 pack of wet cells than a $20,000 pack of lithium ions!

Metric Mind sells their 107 horsepower AC motor/inverter combination for about $7,000. This will require a high voltage pack to operate, meaning you'll need lots of small batteries. Like 25 or more Exide Orbital AGMs, maybe($2,500+ battery pack).

A Li Ion conversion of this car would do about 120-150 miles per charge at 65 mph highway speeds(more around town).

With about 1,000 pounds of lead acid batteries, it would do about 50-60 miles per charge at 65 mph highway speeds, with those basic aeromods that don't alter exterior vehicle appearance, 0 degree camber alignment, corrected brakes so there's no brake drag, synthetic transmission oil, and LRR tires.

But you'd want to size your battery pack so that typical use doesn't discharge it more than 50%. So if you have a commute of 20 miles per day and about 10 miles a day for errands, you'd want to size your pack for at least 60 miles range.

A lead acid battery might only last 200 cycles discharged to 80%, but over 2,000 cycles discharged to 30%.

If you want to use a regularly available AC drive, the high voltage will necessitate AGMs. This means you'll need a battery management system and a charger suited for AGM batteries. Metric Mind sells the Brusa Charger, that works perfectly with AGMs. But it's expensive.

You could do a comparable DC conversion quite a bit cheaper, but you won't have regenerative braking.

Perhaps if you outline what your goals are, I can start throwing ideas around. You'll definately want to ask the EV list.

[Matt Timion]

Just an update.

I removed the carb bowl yesterday and sprayed the inside with carb cleaner. I might have to take the whole thing apart if the problem persists. I did notice a difference in how the car drives, but it could just be placebo.

I noticed last night that the exhaust isn't bolted on properly, which explains why it always smells like exhaust when I drive. I've been spraying the bolts with liquid wrench in hopes that I'll be able to remove the bolts today.

Looks like the z600 will be mine. Maybe I'll end up paying for it today. It's kind of up in the air exactly what I'm going to do with it. Part of me really wants to keep it as a parts car (because I'm a packrat) but another part of me wants to swap the motors and sell it.

Ah, decisions decisions.

[Gary Palmer]

Matt: Did you ever acquire a high temp propane/mapp torch, when you were working on your wife's oxygen sensor. When you get to rusted exhaust bolt's, you can use that torch to heat the bolt red hot and then you can back the nut's off, get the bolt's out, clean up the threads with a tap and die and put it all back together with the "thread preperation" to keep the bolts from freezing up like they do. I can't remember the name of the "thread preparation", but it's for putting in oxygen sensor's and thing's like that, that get hot, rust and generally become difficult to get loose. It's a silver paste stuff, comes in a tube a little larger than a AA battery, about 4" long. You can get it at PepBoy's. It makes that stuff a lOT easier to get out, if you ever have to remove any of it, again. (Can someone help me out here, I cannot remember the name of that stuff.)

On your n600, if your car sat for a good long time, before you got it, or before you got it running, you might want to put 2 inline fuel filter's between the line from the tank to the carburator. I had a 53 Chevy that I had to put a used tank into and I had to put 2 filter's on it and keep a spare in the glove box, to catch all of the garbage which kept coming down the fuel line. If you have 2, the first one get's plugged quicker, but it also catche's most of the garbage and the second one catch's the last bit. Once I did that, I never had to take the carburator off, to clean it out and all of that business.

Also, if the n600 has point's on it, then it's timing is very susceptible to wear on the point's and as the gap change's, it also changes the timing. If you can find a electronic alternative, you should consider it, because the point's just add a whole additional level of variable's to the timing and it's a constant question mark, or at least it always was, for me.

Does the n600 have a timing belt or a chain?

[Matt Timion]

I never did get the torch, as I kind of just gave up after a while of trying to get the o2 sensor off. We ended up having the guys at Midas do it for us.

The particular bolts I'm having an issue with arn't on the engine itself, but rather are the bolts that connect the exhaust manifold to the exhaust itself. This means that in the worst case scenario I'll be able to just cut the bolts off and get new ones, which might be the preferred method if I can't get these bolts off.

I've been considering adding a second fuel filter. I also might want to get one that doesn't allow for air bubbles. The one I have now has a tiny pocket of air in it and I'm certain this is the cause of my occassional sputters. I'm fairly certain I can use the cheap ones at autozone for this application.

The n600 DOES in fact have points, which I replaced a few months ago. I need to recheck the gap though just to make sure it hasn't shifted on me. I wish I could think of an alternative to the points, but unless I go for a full EFI conversion then I cannot think of a way to eliminate the points.

The n600 has a timing chain, which I probably need to replace considering the vacuum is all the way advanced (probably have a stretched chain).

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Matt: Did you ever acquire a high temp propane/mapp torch, when you were working on your wife's oxygen sensor. When you get to rusted exhaust bolt's, you can use that torch to heat the bolt red hot and then you can back the nut's off, get the bolt's out, clean up the threads with a tap and die and put it all back together with the "thread preperation" to keep the bolts from freezing up like they do. I can't remember the name of the "thread preparation", but it's for putting in oxygen sensor's and thing's like that, that get hot, rust and generally become difficult to get loose. It's a silver paste stuff, comes in a tube a little larger than a AA battery, about 4" long. You can get it at PepBoy's. It makes that stuff a lOT easier to get out, if you ever have to remove any of it, again. (Can someone help me out here, I cannot remember the name of that stuff.)

On your n600, if your car sat for a good long time, before you got it, or before you got it running, you might want to put 2 inline fuel filter's between the line from the tank to the carburator. I had a 53 Chevy that I had to put a used tank into and I had to put 2 filter's on it and keep a spare in the glove box, to catch all of the garbage which kept coming down the fuel line. If you have 2, the first one get's plugged quicker, but it also catche's most of the garbage and the second one catch's the last bit. Once I did that, I never had to take the carburator off, to clean it out and all of that business.

Also, if the n600 has point's on it, then it's timing is very susceptible to wear on the point's and as the gap change's, it also changes the timing. If you can find a electronic alternative, you should consider it, because the point's just add a whole additional level of variable's to the timing and it's a constant question mark, or at least it always was, for me.

Does the n600 have a timing belt or a chain?