Just failed emissions twice

[Gary Palmer]

Matt: On the O2 sensor, it's time to get that whirl wind propane torch, that I told you about for the stuck transmission bolt. You need to heat the exhaust manifold and the old sensor, until it's cherry red, or as close as you can get it. When you do, you need to put as large a socket handle or wrench on their, as you can get and lefty loosey it out. It get's stuck by the heat and rust combination, to a point where it might as well be welded in. When you put the new O2 sensor in, put some anti-seize material on the threads. It may have a couple of dabs on the threads, but I usually just get a tube at Pep Boy's or wherever, so I can just put a smear on all of the threads, before reassembeling it. If you put the anti-seize on, it seems to keep them from getting as locked up solid, as your's sounds.

On space in the engine compartment, I agree with you. I have my 87 up, because I am trying to put an A/C system into it, for my daughter. I had to remove the front bumper, to get at things and it's an arrangement where you better put the inside hose on first, then the outside because you can't get to the inside hose when the outside hose is on. It is a shoe horned in, after the fact system and it's been a royal pain as a consequence.

Good Luck!

p.s. I'd retry the car with the old plugs, after you have the cooling system working, drive it a bit, then recheck the plugs for the clean/soot phenomenon?

[Gary Palmer]

Matt: On the radiator, on my 87, I find that it is essential to utilize the bleed screw on the left end of the head. It has to have ALL of the air out or the thermostat will continue to act flunky. It doesn't seem to be able to let the last bit of air out through the radiator cap, in some way. You just need to open the bleed with a 12mm wrench for a minute, until you get a solid stream of water, then tighten it back up.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Matt: On the radiator, on my 87, I find that it is essential to utilize the bleed screw on the left end of the head. It has to have ALL of the air out or the thermostat will continue to act flunky. It doesn't seem to be able to let the last bit of air out through the radiator cap, in some way. You just need to open the bleed with a 12mm wrench for a minute, until you get a solid stream of water, then tighten it back up.

Thanks for the info Gary. I'll do that tonight. I'm sure just adding the extra coolant helped a lot. Any time the overfill tank is empty something is bad.

I also put new NGK plugs in last night.

[DirtyOldTown]

krousdb: Was the car fully warmed up when you had it tested? It'd run rich if it were cold. Maybe an intermittent misfire, but 239 is pretty low. How does it run? Possibly a bad cat. conv. - the Honda in-manifold convertors are prone to failure. Mine and my girlfriend's both are cracked, and hers is OBDII with a check engine light for a bad convertor.

Any way you could post a picture of the plugs?

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by Gary Palmer

Matt: On the O2 sensor, it's time to get that whirl wind propane torch, that I told you about for the stuck transmission bolt. You need to heat the exhaust manifold and the old sensor, until it's cherry red, or as close as you can get it. When you do, you need to put as large a socket handle or wrench on their, as you can get and lefty loosey it out. It get's stuck by the heat and rust combination, to a point where it might as well be welded in. When you put the new O2 sensor in, put some anti-seize material on the threads. It may have a couple of dabs on the threads, but I usually just get a tube at Pep Boy's or wherever, so I can just put a smear on all of the threads, before reassembeling it. If you put the anti-seize on, it seems to keep them from getting as locked up solid, as your's sounds.

Here's a though... why not just drive it around a bit and THEN try to remove it? Both the exhaust manifold and hte o2 sensor will be hot... as long as I don't touch it (or anything) I should be okay :P

[95metro]

Matt, are you using an O2 sensor socket? They're murder to get out with a wrench.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by 95metro

Matt, are you using an O2 sensor socket? They're murder to get out with a wrench.

Yep... o2 sensor socket. I tried removing it with a breaker bar last night and a 1 foot extension along with two smaller 3 inch extensions.

The only results was a broken 3 inch extension bar.

Maybe I'll remove the hood tonight and try again. The hood kept getting in my way with the breaker bar.

Or maybe I'll just go to the junkyard today and see how much work it is to get the exhaust manifold off of these cars. If it's easy I'll just do that and remove the o2 sensor that way.

[95metro]

Yowch! Okay then. I feel your pain...

[MetroMPG]

I don't know if this will help, but when I changed the O2 sensor on FF#1, I removed (busted) the end of the old sensor off on purpose so I could get a short socket on the bolt part (shorter socket = less chance of torquing it off while reefing on it).

[krousdb]

Originally Posted by DirtyOldTown

krousdb: Was the car fully warmed up when you had it tested? It'd run rich if it were cold. Maybe an intermittent misfire, but 239 is pretty low. How does it run? Possibly a bad cat. conv. - the Honda in-manifold convertors are prone to failure. Mine and my girlfriend's both are cracked, and hers is OBDII with a check engine light for a bad convertor.

Any way you could post a picture of the plugs?

I had it tested at the dealership and im sure they know to warm it up first. It runs fine but does smell like unburnt fuel. The service manager said that it wasn't the cat and recommend a tune up. I told them I would do it myself and come back later.