Excessive oil changes

[RunningOnFumes]

Originally Posted by Draigflag

Most European manufactures now advise anywhere between 18,000 and 30,000 mile oil change intervals.

I have seen labels on oil bottles such as "BMW Long Life" for some time in Europe.

My 1995 Porsche called for oil changes every 20,000 kms (or 2 years whichever occurs first) and the latest is now 24,000 kms probably due to an improvement in oil . Recommended oil filter (there are 2 large ones) change intervals is every 40,000 kilometers.

[trollbait]

Originally Posted by RunningOnFumes

I read that Mobil 1 and Valvoline High Performance are or at least were fully synthetic.

Was that the case then and still now?

Having used Mobil 1 in my last car from the 1st inspection at 1000 kilometers for 15 years, all I can say was there were no scuffs on the approach side of the cam lobes the last I checked at about 189,000 kilometers.

It's an old case from back when Castrol introduced their Syntec line. When Mobil learned it wasn't 100% synthetic, they took Castro to court. Castrol had better lawyers.

Mobil1 and others were 100% synthetic, but after the case they changed their formulas. I am pretty sure they still aren't 100%. The only ones I am aware of are the odd case of the German Syntec 0w40, Amsoil, and perhaps those pricy high performance brands; Royal Purple and some other one.

The regular, Group III oils are a major improvement over the oils available when a 3000mile interval was required. So a 'synthetic' oil is probably as good as a 100% oil for the vast majority of daily drive patterns. Synthetic blend labeled oils are 30% group IV or V at most. So a 'synthetic' oil should have a higher portion. I also think a 0w- oil will need more true synthetics in the blend.

[Jay2TheRescue]

The Mobil1 oils listed as "Extended Protection" and the zero weight Mobil1 oils are still fully synthetic. Anything else and you may be getting highly refined dinosaur juice.

[BDC]

Thanks Jay, I didn't know that the "extended protection" oils are fully synthetic.

I thought that the 0w-40 was the only regular Mobil1 synthetic that was fully synthetic, but I could be wrong.

[Draigflag]

So you guys do still get the high quality synthetic stuff over there, but the manufacturers still recommend you change it 5 to 10 times more often than here?

[trollbait]

I thought that the 0w-40 was the only regular Mobil1 synthetic that was fully synthetic, but I could be wrong.

That's the only Castrol Syntec that was fully synthetic. At least several years back it was, if Mobil1 zero weights 100% synthetic, then any other brands' zero weights out there probably are too.

So you guys do still get the high quality synthetic stuff over there, but the manufacturers still recommend you change it 5 to 10 times more often than here?

Yeah, the synthetic labeling ruling makes it hard to determine which ones those are though.

I believe it is the dealers associations that pressure the manufacturers into shorter oil change intervals. They make a large portion of their income from the service side. So they, and also the oil change shops, benefit from it. I had a coupon for a free oil change last winter from the Chevy dealer, so I took the Sonic in instead of doing it myself outside. Despite GM having a well working oil life monitor in all their cars for over a decade at least, and they still put a 3 month/ 3000 mile reminder sticker on my window.

[BDC]

I see. I buy Mobil1 "full synthetic" 0w-30 by the case for the same price as 5w-30, so I was assuming that they were both the same cheaper stocks. Doesn't keep me from using it, since it's still pretty good oil.

As far as the dealer recommendations, here in the USA the OEMs will put a certain figure in the users manual, and any dealer you walk into will still quote you 3,000 miles just so they can get your business. My new car is 7,500 miles/12,000 km OCI, but my dealer couldn't tell me that (they don't even know) and so they recommend 3,000 of course. They have no obligation to sell FEWER oil changes either to the customer or to the OEM, and as long as the customers believe it, they aren't hurting anything.

I haven't spent enough time in Europe to own a car, but I suspect that you walk into a european car dealership and they'll recommend an oil change interval far shorter than the OEMs recommend just like in the USA. Since our only european source is our notoriously trollish and often exaggerating-to-the-point-of-deceptive welshman, maybe the truth is somewhere in between? It's my gut feeling, but I have a hard time believing that a service advisor in the UK will really to tell a paying customer, "You're only at 47,000 km on this oil, no need to change it yet, bring it back in another 3k." I'm pretty sure that service advisor doesn't exist in the US, Europe, or anywhere else.

Maybe they would opt out of the oil change for a free service such as what many OEMs are doing in America now (for example, Toyota offers free maintenance for the first 25,000 miles, but their OCI is 10,000 miles so they only have to change it twice). But for a customer with money in their hand? I am skeptical.

[Draigflag]

Yea no offense but you need to drop the whole troll label you keep throwing at me. You obviously don't understand what a troll is. Unfortunately I do, it got so bad at one point I had to involve the Police who were very helpful, so please, no more use of the word troll for me thanks, especially without any apparent reasoning.

And the example you gave is exactly what happened to me just a few weeks back when I took my car in for it's first service. Once I got home and realised they hadn't changed the oil after 11000 miles, I phoned them up and they explained the oil change intervals are 18,000 miles, so when I reach that mileage, drop it in then. Just because some countries do things correctly, and don't get talked into things as easily as you guys in the US do, doesn't mean they don't happen buddy.

[trollbait]

In other countries, independent dealers don't have the legal protections against manufacturer direct sales and service centers that they do in the US. They probably don't have the political sway that they do in the states either.

Here the established car companies have to sell through independent dealers, and are legally barred from running a store directly. They do have options to use against dishonest dealers, but some Chevy dealers that were going to lose their franchise license during the GM bankruptcy successfully sued to keep it. So what a company can do against a scummy dealer might be real effective.

[Draigflag]

Most dealers here have their own brand oil, Audi have Audi oil, Abarth have Abarth oil, Renault have Renault oil. No doubt these are just manufactured by branded oil companies and re-labeled, so maybe they make thier money not by getting people to change their oil every few months, but by hoping people will continue to service their cars at the same garage using their own branded oil time after time, even if it is only once every two years.