Ethanol Lube - Page 3

theclencher · 08-04-2011, 04:31 PM

What is it that needs lubrication?

VetteOwner · 08-04-2011, 05:44 PM

yea exactly... gas isnt used as a lubricant in an engine, thats why 2 cycle engines have oil in the gas (regular ol motor oil works too, dont need those tiny bottles of 2 cycle - BUT they do smoke alot less haha) and if you dont have said oil it destroys it in a minute or less. and 4 cycle engines with an esentially oil "pan" do not need the oil in the gas obviously...

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_...ms_damage.html

^^^ that article is biased or thier not giving you the whole picture... yea PURE ethonal will dissolve alot of things, pure of alot of chemicals dissolves alot too haha

they make it sound like your trying to start an engine thats been sitting for 50 years unran and you put e10 in it its going to melt into a pile of goo. yes it can eat away non compatible rubber hoses and seals but they've been making it compatible for years, and if not i think 40 year old fuel lines and the carb needs to be replaced/rebuilt anyways...also not entirely sure where all this rust keeps comming from they mention...time to check the tank or see if ya got any oil left...

the points about E10 and boat engines doesn't make a bit of sense either...

whole article(s) are written to sell thier stupid fuel tester. it may be 9% ethanol one week then 11 the next you gonna keep testing the gas by paying for a drops worth for thier tests each time a new tanker pulls in? yes u are cuz they have you so scared your car boat lawnmower weedwhacker chainsaw is going to melt and be unrepairable!!!

theclencher · 08-04-2011, 09:32 PM

Ha ha- fueltesters.

Don't they know GASOLINE is a solvent too?

trollbait · 08-05-2011, 08:49 AM

Yes, alcohols will mix with water, but ethanol is also hygroscopic. This means its affinity for water is strong and will even absorb moisture from the air. It's why it is used in Heet. Pure ethanol will stabilize to around 95% when not sealed up. In fact, straight distillation can't remove that 5% water. You need to use molecular sieves or benzene to get absolute ethanol.

So it brings water into the fuel system, which might lead to rusting steel. Flex fuel vehicles use stainless in areas, but they are expected to deal with more water. Additives that use ethanol can bring in more water, and at a certain point the ethanol water mix will seperate from the gas. This might cause running problems. I don't worry about it in my car.

For the lawnmower, where the gas stills exposed to humidity longer, I'll add isopropanol once and awhile. It will keep the ethanol/water mixed with the gas, and it isn't hygroscopic. If you don't want to add the water in the rubbing alcohol, add some salt. IPA doesn't mix with saline solutions, and it should seperate like oil and water.

theholycow · 08-05-2011, 10:27 AM

Water and gaseous free O2 cause rust together as a team. Your fuel system should not be seeing gaseous O2 if it's a modern pressurized, sealed, check-valve-protected system (as found on all fuel injected vehicles).

If it's a non-pressurized system as in my carburted Buick then it could get air after it sits and fuel drains back into the tank/evaporates into the carburetor; at that point airborne water vapor does water's job in rusting it, not water that may have separated from fuel that passed through.

Anyway, wouldn't the point where the ethanol separates from water be when it's burned (along with airborne water vapor from the air intake)?

Also, isopropanol (aka isopropyl alcohol) is just as hygroscopic as ethanol, which is why Iso-HEET works as well as regular HEET.

If you want to worry about rust, worry about the salt that you're adding. I suspect that it could easily precipitate onto steel surfaces during small heating/cooling cycles. When air hits that surface the salt speeds up rusting.

VetteOwner · 08-05-2011, 02:00 PM

yea i would NOT add salt to anything, if anything they need to stop using salt on the roads around here...hence where places that get the same if not more snow the cars rot less that places that get less and use salt...

bowtieguy · 08-07-2011, 10:22 AM

bottom line...there are documented complications in small and marine engines. long term affects of auto engines are debated, tho likely inconclusive as of yet. all 4 of my vehicles are 14-15 years old or more...for my older vehicles, i'll pay the nominal "fee" for lube as cheap insurance.

btw, for you chemistry guys...doesn't 100% gas have a present lubricity to it? i thought i heard this before...at least that it has some lube already in it compared to E10.
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reminds me...i ran out of lube. have run a few tanks w/out it, and have had lower FE. coincidence? i'll find out. filled today w/ lube...

VetteOwner · 08-07-2011, 05:59 PM

yea most if not all fluids have SOME lubricating properties...(wet road VS dry road VS oil slick road haha) but once again we ask what are you lubricating???

i hope you dont count those stores that people wrote in to that article you posted bowtieguy... most of their problems can be explained by other things some yes E10 is contributing but usually what happens to engines that have been run exclusively on reg gas then switch to E10, the ethanol breaks down all the varnish and deposits left behind which gum up/clog the carb up untill you clean it out real well.

theclencher · 08-07-2011, 11:44 PM

Don't make the mistake of lumping in old boats and mowers and chainsaws in with cars; they are in a different situation regarding ethanol for several reasons, among them that they are likely to be OLD as in made with non-ethanol resistant fuel system parts before ethanol was in fuel, they are likely to be CARB'D and as such are not adaptive to mixture control like EFI, they are likely to sit unused for extended periods of time, and etc.

I've read that N. American vehicles have been at least E10 resistant since 1988 and recently saw where Delphi, a supplier of OEM fuel system components, says their stuff has been E85 resistant since '92. That's good to know, as I've been running straight E85 in my '92 Tempo and '94 F150 in the non-winter months for several years now and I haven't had to fix anything, not even change a fuel filter. But I have had fuel lines and carb mixture issues with E85 in older stuff like mowers and motorcycles- no surprise, and I won't constantly run E85 in my '84 Tempo but I'll do it once in a while as sort of a fuel system cleansing, immediately followed by a fill with regular. But of course I feed all that old stuff E10 because, well, MN has had E10 as regular mandated since '97 but available far longer. I remember gasohol being all the rage in the early '80s.