clutch issues: Should I be able to do this?

[GasSavers_DaX]

Matt...I have been able to do this with EVERY Honda I have owned (I'm on my 7th...i think).

As long as you're NOT doing it with engine braking, you're fine. You CAN do it with engine braking, but it wears the back side of the teeth on the synchros. Doing it without heavy engine braking is ok. You can actually shift without the clutch if you match the rev's of the engine with the rev's of the transmission. I have driven an entire trip this way and it works. Ask me about breaking a clutch cable while coming home from work sometime (I still made it home).

[tomauto]

Explain Juddering...

[MetroMPG]

Normal, Matt.

When I kill my engine to coast, I go to neutral without using the clutch by moving the shifter when the engine approaches its lightest load. I've been grabbing neutral that way for years in all my cars.

Some had a smaller window of opportunity than others - sounds like yours is fairly generous.

Like Dax, I also once snapped a clutch cable in Toronto traffic, to the delight of the tow truck driver who happened to be stopped behind me at the light. A quick check under the hood (before the light even turned green) confirmed the cable problem. He suggested, "I can just push you through the intersection to that gas station and hook you up." To his dismay, I thanked him for his offer, got the car going with the starter motor when the light changed and continued on my way sans clutch. He followed me for a while.

[Matt Timion]

Originally Posted by DaX

Ask me about breaking a clutch cable while coming home from work sometime (I still made it home).

Same thing happened to my mom and step dad in my old truck. Stuck at the beach with no clutch cable.

So they drove home in fifth gear.

[onegammyleg]

Hiya tomauto - re juddering

Juddering is the vibration heard or felt when releasing the clutch pedal.
It will not be felt when the pedal is all the way up or down , only during the time that you are slipping the clutch - Mostly like when pulling away from a dead stop.
Most often it will be noticed then , but perhaps on the 1st to 2nd gear change as well depending upon its severity and your driving style. (clutch slipper)

Often juddering is caused by the friction material on the clutch plate being contaminated by oil (leaky rear crank seal) but it can be from uneven wear of this friction plate.(clutch plate)

Other , but less likely causes are uneven or otherwise flawed surfaced of the flywheel or clutch presure plate assembly.

If on dissasembly all looks good but the clutch (friction) plate is a bit bad then that part alone can be replaced quite cheaply - but if your intending to keep the car , get the flywheel machined perfectly flat again and fit a complete new clutch kit.
(a clutch kit comprises of one or two bearings , presure plate , clutch plate.)

If the friction plate was found to be contamined with oil , be sure to replace the leaky seal.

Never try to save money on a clutch job by taking short cuts , it will cost you more later.

[Ted Hart]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

Pull lightly on the shifter as you take your foot off the gas and as the load on the gears is released it will pop out of gear. If you want to get into the next gear it is best to have the rpm and speed matched and do it at a low rpm - not recommended because you are dealing with a lot of enertia and can chip the edges off the gears. Clutch health is a function of material left indicated by how high it grabs and how much adjustment is left, not easy with hydralic pedal linkage however.

Hi, JaneGeo!
I'm not trying to be a pain...but I greatly dislike "misinformation"!
For all the readers out there : The gears do not change in modern-day transmissions! The term "synchromesh" isn't used anymore...but the gear teeth are always in mesh! These meshed units slide back & forth on splined shafts...engaging / disengaging "dogs" on each cluster! Thus, no tooth chipping / breakage goes on! When one "changes gears", one is merely sliding a gear cluster back & forth...between dogs... using the fork!
Shifting without the clutch is entirely possible! Up or down! One merely has to match the revolutions of each of the two gear clusters...allowing the dogs to disengage and re-engage. NASCAR drivers are well known for their clutchless shifting (except for A.J. Foyt's drivers! He'll be "unhappy"!).
To visualize..."Dogs" are very strong "fingers" that interlock, like your fingers... on both hands. Rotating dogs interlock to turn adjacent gear clusters.

[onegammyleg]

Realy , the term synchromesh isnt used any more ???

Best go tell Quaife , one of the world leading race car gearbox makers they have it wrong

http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page12.htm

Oh yeah , and GM too
http://www.5speedtransmissions.com/gm_syncromesh.html

Oh yeah , and Penzoil too
http://www.pennzoil.com/products/gea...cro_fluid.html

Best edit Wiki while your at it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_...on#Synchromesh

But seriously . while the term is still widely used (and accepted as interchangable) it is not correct , synchronizer is.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by Ted Hart

Hi, JaneGeo!
I'm not trying to be a pain...but I greatly dislike "misinformation"!
For all the readers out there : The gears do not change in modern-day transmissions! The term "synchromesh" isn't used anymore...but the gear teeth are always in mesh! These meshed units slide back & forth on splined shafts...engaging / disengaging "dogs" on each cluster! Thus, no tooth chipping / breakage goes on! When one "changes gears", one is merely sliding a gear cluster back & forth...between dogs... using the fork!
Shifting without the clutch is entirely possible! Up or down! One merely has to match the revolutions of each of the two gear clusters...allowing the dogs to disengage and re-engage. NASCAR drivers are well known for their clutchless shifting (except for A.J. Foyt's drivers! He'll be "unhappy"!).
To visualize..."Dogs" are very strong "fingers" that interlock, like your fingers... on both hands. Rotating dogs interlock to turn adjacent gear clusters.

WOOOOOWW are we talking motorcycle or car manual transmissions? Car transmissions are still moving gears back and forth on splined shafts otherwise you wouldn't get gear grinding noises or have syncros in them. Motorcycle transmissions use dogs like you say as well as old three speed and more recently 5 and 7 speed hubs in bicycles but cars still have syncros and require special lubrication properties so that they grab enough to syncronize the speed of the clutch disk input side shaft to the output shaft speeds. Race cars are totally different animals and I don't profess to know how they work.

[JanGeo]

Originally Posted by onegammyleg

Juddering is the vibration heard or felt when releasing the clutch pedal.

OR DAMP from moisture Oh I hate that when it happens in my xB slip and grab slip and grab drives me crazy until I slip it a little extra in 2nd and dry it out.

[GasSavers_DaX]

Originally Posted by JanGeo

WOOOOOWW are we talking motorcycle or car manual transmissions? Car transmissions are still moving gears back and forth on splined shafts otherwise you wouldn't get gear grinding noises or have syncros in them. Motorcycle transmissions use dogs like you say as well as old three speed and more recently 5 and 7 speed hubs in bicycles but cars still have syncros and require special lubrication properties so that they grab enough to syncronize the speed of the clutch disk input side shaft to the output shaft speeds. Race cars are totally different animals and I don't profess to know how they work.

You're both correct / incorrect...for Honda transmissions, anyhow. Ted is right in that the gears are ALWAYS engaged, but JanGeo is right in that the transmissions use synchros instead of dogs. Gear-Speed used to sell a dogbox with straight gear teeth for B-series Hondas (still had constant mesh gears), but it was expensive and for race application only. Synchros differ from dogs in that they have a braking surface to match the gear's RPM to the shaft's RPM, while dogs just have a catch. Smooth, slower shifting is possible with synchro transmissions, while dog boxes require quick and hard shifts to prevent damage. Let me reiterate that my manual transmission knowledge stems ONLY from Honda B & D series transmissions.