Clearing Up Synthetic Oil Confussion

[bowtieguy]

Jay, i've had the exact same results you've had. i have seen the interior of some of my vehicles that were maintained on time w/ conventional oil before i changed over. let's just say there was no comparison in cleanliness.

some things in life are obvious, but come often times down to cost. if conventional oil is maintained properly, no question that many vehicles will have a long life. for me, time saved and the possibility of extended engine life is a good prospect.

off topic: another example is chiropractic. it has helped me achieve a better state of health, AND NO ONE WILL TELL ME DIFFERENTLY, period!!! i abused my body, for the first 23 years of life, and would no doubt be suffering w/ poor quality of life w/ out my chiro care. many, still doubt, most w/out even experiencing it. and yes, it comes with (extra) cost as most insurers will only cover limited visits.

[Jay2TheRescue]

I run Mobil 1 10W 30 High Mileage in Rusty, I converted my Buick to Mobil 1 5W30 Extended Performance (from Mobil 1 10W 30) at the last oil change. I converted The Beast from Mobil 1 5W 30 to Mobil 1 0W 30 a few oil changes ago. I have not had problems with 5W 30 in that ancient Buick V-6, I may eventually put Mobil 1 0W 30 in it as well.

[pgfpro]

Originally Posted by *************

I now recommend "synthetic" oil, in fact if you get any of the oils with a 0W rating like 0W-20, it's guaranteed to be "synthetic". "Synthetic" oil is also really good for turbo charged vehicles like my sister's Volvo. But I can't recommend the PAO oils (true synthetics) because they're usually significantly more expensive and unnecessary in our application.



Well, is it better oil or better oil service interval?
Cause pretty much all the corollas that burn oil get sticky piston rings and to prevent that from happening, I'd imagine changing the oil religiously or using a better oil would've prevented the problems they so commonly experience. Great oil 5-8K miles, crappy oil at 3-4K miles. I think it's pretty rare to find a non oil burning Corolla made between '93-'06.

My wife has a 95' Corolla and it doesn't use a drop of oil. Over 200K on it.

We change the oil around every 4k and run what ever Dino oil is on sale.

I run regular Valvoline in all my turbo cars and have never had a problem. On the turbo cars I change them out every 2K to 4K depending on how much they were raced.

[theholycow]

BTG, I'm asking you what failures you've had. What problem are you trying to solve? Has dinosaur juice ever failed you before? Why did you get rid of your last car?

My truck has 195,000 miles on it. It's only ever had dinosaur juice, and I haven't kept up with it perfectly. During the last 30,000 miles or so I've been very good about changing it when the "Change Engine Oil" prompt comes up; that's about 6,000 miles. I don't know or care what it looks like inside - it runs great, has plenty of power, and is decently efficient.

My only complaint is that lately the piston slap issue that is common to the Gen III Vortec 5.3 engine has gotten worse since my last oil change. At that time I put in Valvoline MaxLife semi-synthetic 5W30 instead of my usual SuperTech High Mileage non-synthetic 5W30. You might say that my skepticism of synthetic as the be-all end-all of engine oil has been strengthened.

I think that the common practice of overthinking (and overspending and overefforting) about engine oil leaves people not putting enough attention and money into the other things that need attention, in addition to wasting money and wasting oil that could instead be made into fuel.

[fowljesse]

What I've learned (I didn't read the article yet), is that syn handles heat better, but doesn't absorb heat quite as well as Dino, so some turbo users use Dino to keep them cooler. Other than that, Syn is superior. A while ago, Syn didn't have the seal conditioners, so seals in old cars would get hard, and leak. They fixed that years ago. You can safely extend the change intervals of Syn, so that you essentially end up paying the same price per mile of decent Dino oil. Dino oils with wax are BAD for any engine. It used to be that it was "bad" to switch back and forth between the oils, but it isn't anymore. I use Royal Purple, because I'm looking at the big picture, which is; I could do things to my cars to get awesome mileage now, and not spend much, but it would all be negated if the car died, so I spend preventative maintenance money, and change my oil and filter every 4Kish on the race car, and about every 7Kish on the stock car, even though I use Royal Purple. I also use an oil filter that is almost 2X the size of the OEM one. If you have a small displacement engine, it's not hard to find a bigger filter that will fit. I have a 2.5L engine, and use a filter for a Corvette ZR1 DOHC, and only pay $4 for them (once a year on sale @ NAPA).

If you have a car that you can easily work on/ swap engines, or you never drive hard, you can go a year on Syn, and a good filter. The oil doesn't break down, but the additives do.

[bowtieguy]

Originally Posted by theholycow

BTG, I'm asking you what failures you've had. What problem are you trying to solve? Has dinosaur juice ever failed you before? Why did you get rid of your last car?

It's only ever had dinosaur juice, and I haven't kept up with it perfectly. During the last 30,000 miles or so I've been very good about changing it when the "Change Engine Oil" prompt comes up; that's about 6,000 miles.

My only complaint is that lately the piston slap issue that is common to the Gen III Vortec 5.3 engine has gotten worse since my last oil change.

I think that the common practice of overthinking (and overspending and overefforting) about engine oil leaves people not putting enough attention and money into the other things that need attention, in addition to wasting money and wasting oil that could instead be made into fuel.

HC, you and i agree on many things(and i appreciate you as a moderator), but i gotta look at these questions and statements.

i've never had an engine failure--been using syn fluids almost since i started driving. i'm trying to avoid sludge and /or internal failures others have had. i've always gotten rid of cars for need(or want)--size, a/c, accident, etc.

you validate the need for syn fluids when you fail to keep up w/ maintenence--you have a greater margin of error. going 6k miles and trusting your oil prompter. could you internal issue have been prevented w/ syn oil? if it is common, i'd say it's a good possibility.

your last paragraph kills me the most ...i likely spend less money, and i MOST certainly spend less time using syn oil. and naturally, LESS oil is used and subsequently wasted, or hopefully recycled.

[bowtieguy]

i really hope those that but cheap oil, don't have the same opinion of ceramic brake pads!!!

i put ceramics on both of my vehicles(one has sold since) 2 years ago. the braking distance is shorter(tho i did not perform a distance test) and the rotors do not warp and last longer. after 2 years, the rotors still look new!

yes more $$$ now, less in the long run. just another example and observation.

[imzjustplayin]

Well for one thing about synthetics, they don't need friction modifiers and have a better ability to "suspend" more dirt particles compared to regular multi viscosity oils. This means that not only will more dirt be suspended in the fluid before it becomes saturated compared to regular oil but it also doesn't suffer from shearing of the friction modifiers since it has none/very few. When the friction modifiers in an oil are sheared apart, the oil's lower "w" number goes up (becomes less viscous at lower temperatures).

Another useful characteristic of fake and true synthetic oils is that they "burn off" at much higher temperatures compared to regular synthetic oil which may be advantageous in engines that burn oil.


Here is a nice little page that compares the differences between various oils (synthetic and non synthetic). It should help explain the differences.

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html

[bowtieguy]

excellent link. amsoil(my preferred brand) does extremely well in those tests. their newest 0W30 series 2000 is not listed or tested, so it no doubt has even better test results! once again confirms my choice as the best bang for the buck!

[VetteOwner]

Originally Posted by theholycow

That's getting closer to the kind of data I look for with that question. I am looking to find out what problem people are trying to solve by throwing more money at the oil industry. Usually they do not know, they've just heard that it's better to use better oil and/or change it more often. Usually they have never had an engine failure at all.

I'm surprised about the oil burning Corollas. I am a skeptic about Toyota's overcooked reliability reputation, but I assume that those older Corollas should have the bulletproof 4 cylinder that built that reputation...I would not expect them to be just as bad as old Saturns.

What did Toyota specify for oil and interval on those cars?

dont worry my friends 98 corolla burns about 1/2 quart a week and its always gotten changed at 3-4K miles with conventional oil