5-wire o2 sensor: email correspondence with Global Automotive

[1993CivicVX]

So a few months ago I bought an o2 sensor from Global Automotive (as some of you remember) I am posting the email correspondence with them to see if anyone has any ideas how to get it working properly! (so read this post from the bottom up!) thanks. The most salient part to read, tho, is the message from Global Automotive right below.



Dear Valued Customer,

If the light goes off once the engine is hot, then the sensor is not the problem.

There is probably another dead sensor by the cat conv.

If your mechanic was unable to properly diagnose this then we suggest you take it somewhere else.

Buyer cannot automatically assume the new item is defective, especially if the vehicle was never hooked to a scanner.

The plugs also need to be cleaned and inspected to assure proper contact. There are many things that could be the culprite.

We have been sell these 5 wire sensors for over 10 years to hundreds of smog and emission shops with no problems or returns.

Thanks,
Management



Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 04:43:59 -0700
From: chesterules@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: You've received a question about your eBay item, NEW NTK OEM OXYGEN SENSOR 5 WIRE 1992-2000 HOND
To: global_automotive@hotmail.com

Yes, I took it to a certified mechanic. He said needs to be replaced. I was unable to get the check engine light to go off. The light stays off once the engine is hot, but comes on whenever I start the engine when it is not hot.
thanks,
Jason

----- Original Message ----
From: Global Automotive <global_automotive@hotmail.com>
To: grotug@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:52:23 AM
Subject: RE: You've received a question about your eBay item, NEW NTK OEM OXYGEN SENSOR 5 WIRE 1992-2000 HOND



Dear Valued Customer,

Did you take this to a certified mechanic to have them diagnose? What is wrong with the sensor?

Thanks,
Management


Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 05:59:46 -0700
From: member@ebay.com
To: global_automotive@hotmail.com
Subject: You've received a question about your eBay item, NEW NTK OEM OXYGEN SENSOR 5 WIRE 1992-2000 HONDA CIVIC

eBay sent this message to Kevin Simmons (global-automotive).

This member has a question for you.

Dear global-automotive,

Please contact me, I do not want to have to leave negative feedback. I see in your feedback that several people never received return emails when their product didn't work. Please email back ASAP! My brand new o2 sensor I purchased from you is not working!
Thank you
Jason

- jroot413

Answer the question

Item and user details
Item Title: NEW NTK OEM OXYGEN SENSOR 5 WIRE 1992-2000 HONDA CIVIC
Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=160159696407
End Date: Sep-28-07 15:40:58 PDT

[DRW]

That's lame, you assumed the new O2 sensor was defective, and threatened them with negative feedback, when the old sensor had a problem, too.
There's more than one way to get a CEL.

If you've messed with any of the sensors to make the car run leaner, or if there is a problem which makes the car run either rich or lean, then the O2 sensor would read out of range, and the ecu might mistakenly flag a CEL for bad O2 sensor, when in reality the O2 sensor is reading right, it's just reading a very rich/lean condition.

[kamesama980]

CEL means the computer has a code to tell you. so pull the code and find out for sure what the computer's complaining about.

[GasSavers_Red]

I just bought a 5 wire 02 for the Insight from Global last week. Works perfectly fine. Voltages right in spec, and the ECU is more than happy with it.

I have heard bench testing a LAF can kill it, whats the voltage reading when its in the car?

[1993CivicVX]

I don't know how to read voltage. I am uncomfortable with hooking up voltemeters to my car, nor do I know how, but I might be able to get some help with that.

DRM, there was more to the message than I posted, where they were being uncooperative. They also apparently don't have such a great reputation with the better business bureau or some such.

Kamesame, I checked the code and it was the o2 sensor. My old o2 sensor wasn't throwing a code, but it was stumbling excessively and wouldn't maintain a constant speed (would either be gaining power or losing power, the car could never maintain a constant speed) so that's why I got a new o2 sensor. My mechanic cut the wires of old o2 sensor to remove it so I was unable to install it again. When the CEL is not on and the car is not running in open loop, the o2 sensor seems to be doing its job... stumble is hardly noticeable and the CEL never comes on if I drive for awhile without letting the engine cool down (I have previously gone over all this on this forum awhile ago, and the o2 sensor seems to be working more or less properly when it's hot, and the CEL only comes on when the engine cools off (like if I kill the engine for 3 minutes or so and then bump start again, the CEL will come on one or two minutes later)

Thanks for replying. I really want to get to the bottom of this.

Red, what is bench testing? Global Automotive told me that an LAF sensor is a completely different part than an o2 sensor, and so they think I bought and installed the wrong part. (I know this not to be true.)

Thanks again for replying. I'm gonna see if I can't find someone at my school who can help me apply some of your suggestions! (like testing voltages) Thank ye.

[GasSavers_Red]

Bench testing an 02 or an LAF sensor ususally consists of clamping the sensor in a vise, heating it up with a blow torch while watching the voltage output.

You said your mechanic cut the old sensor out, did he splice in the new sensor? He should have been able to unplug and unbolt the old one without any problems. If he did splice in your new sensor, it could just be cross wired which is giving false signals to your ECU. My guess would be that the heater circuit is miswired since you only get a CEL when the engine is cold.

[GasSavers_bobski]

Originally Posted by Red

You said your mechanic cut the old sensor out, did he splice in the new sensor?

You can't do that with these 5 wire sensors - there's a calibration resistor (paired to that particular sensor) in the electrical connector. That's why there's 7 wires coming into the connector on the engine side, but only 5 continuing on to the sensor itself. If you solder on your old connector, you'll get the resistor that's paired with your old sensor, resulting in the new sensor not functioning properly.

[1993CivicVX]

The mechanic didn't solder anything. He said you can't solder the wires because they are too sensitive (as Bobski concurs). He cut the wires of the old o2 sensor and unscrewed it, and then installed the new one per spec.

[Danronian]

It sounds to me like you have the wrong o2 sensor.

It should have plugged in, and having to cut off the new plug and splice the wires to get it to install it on should have been a hint to the mechanic it was the wrong part. Knowing it is a pricey sensor, and not a normal o2 sensor should have made him more aware of what he was doing and he should be to blame for this problem more than anyone else. I do think this is the wrong part, and wrongfully listed by the ebay seller, but if something doesnt fit, it's often not possible to cut it and splice to make it work better.

[GasSavers_bobski]

Originally Posted by Danronian

It sounds to me like you have the wrong o2 sensor.

It should have plugged in, and having to cut off the new plug and solder it on should have been a hint to the mechanic it was the wrong part.

Originally Posted by 1993CivicVX

The mechanic didn't solder anything. [...] He cut the wires of the old o2 sensor and unscrewed it, and then installed the new one per spec.

So the wires were cut simply to remove the old sensor. You can't put a normal socket on the sensor because the wiring has nowhere to go. Cutting off the wiring deals with that. Dan is saying that the old sensor and it's connector were thrown out once they were removed from the car.