gasoline and veggie oil, to much time to think.

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I had a long drive today, so I had time to think about things, and I came up with a baffling question, it was based off the idea of running straight vegitable oil in a diesel, in the winter some people add up to 20% gasoline to the oil to make it thiner, would you be able to do basicly the oposite with gasoline? add lets say up to 10 or 20% oil to your gasoline to rase the octane? vegitable oil is going to burn more compleatly then motor oil, and it's going to be a small enough amount that I would think it would mix right in, and not cause any problems...
am I compleatly off on my logic here?

[SVOboy]

You're off. They add 20% or so of diesel, not gas.

It'd be like adding diesel fuel to a gas car or ethanol to a SVO car.

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure that the VW diesel rabbit owners manual says something about if winter diesel is not avalible, or you are having problems with gelling in extreamly cold weather that you could add 10-20% gasoline, they of course no longer advise people do this as the quality of diesel is suposidly improved, altho I do know of a number of people with diesel cars that are running straight unheated oil, mixed with gasoline, all I found with google was this off http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html


Biodiesel in gasoline engines

Biodiesel can also be used in gasoline (spark-ignition) engines, but only as an additive. People have had good results with it, but it's still experimental, there are no guarantees.

Biodiesel in 2-stroke gasoline engines: Many people have used biodiesel as replacement 2T lube oil in two-stroke gasoline (petrol) engines. Biofuel mailing list member Martin R. of Australia uses it in his chain saw, at a mix of 1 to 20 with gasoline. "It works fine," he says. "After using the saw for 2.5 hours in one go on dead Australian hardwood with no hiccups I was very impressed to say the least."


Franklin Del Rosario wrote:
I'm please to inform our group about using a biodiesel blend with gasoline fuel to power a 4-stroke gasoline engine. The company I work with has a fleet of service cars, most of them are Japanese Nissan, Toyota and Honda. I persuaded one of our company drivers to try biodiesel in a gasoline engine at 200-300 ml of biodiesel to 50 litres of gasoline mixed together in the fuel tank.

We choose a Nissan Cefiro because it emitted a foul odor of unburned hydrocarbons irritating to the eyes and nose during engine warm up and idling. I poured 200 ml of biodiesel into the tank, shook the body for a while and started the engine. After 5 to 7 minutes of idling speed, the exhaust odor improved dramatically and at the end of the day of driving the odor of unburned hydrocarbon was gone and engine purred better than before because biodiesel lubricates the fuel system, the upper combustion chamber, as well as the valve ports. Because of this other drivers tried it in Honda cars. The immediate result was no more odor of unburned hydrocarbons and visible trace of water condensation at the exhaust tail pipe as if the car was new.

I tried using biodiesel as an anti-wear additive for a four-stroke gasoline motorcycle engine and the result was the same."

[psyshack]

I dont see this truley working in a gas only engine.

If the cats where in good working order and the emmission system was in good working order they shouldnt have stunk to start with.

Standard gas engines dont have the compression to ignite oils so to speak. Other so called top end lubes Ive seen have never proved out to be worth the bottle there packaged in.

I dont no why a natural oil additive would be any diff.

Will be intresting to see where this leads.

psy

[SVOboy]

Hmm, that's very interesting that they'd use gas, you have me stumped there, but like psy, I have a feeling that it won't work the other way around.

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I was given a quart of bio-diesel (pure b-100 made from recycled veggie oil) this past weekend at a music festival under the condition that I try this crazy idea, at first I was going to rip down a two stroke engine to see what kind of shape it was in befor, then run it for a while, and tear it down again, but I got impateint, so I simply did a mix, I took a standerd 50:1 two stroke weed wacker gas premix, and dumped in 10% bio-diesel, I started out with a new spark plug this fall, and it looks like the engine has been running near perfectly, no oil fouling, no soot, not running to lean, and the engine doesn't smoke much, and the muffler is reasonably free from oil residue, after about half an hour or more of running with 10% bio-diesel in the tank I checked the spark plug and it looked exactly the same, the exaust didn't show any signs of unburnt oil, and you could smell a slight bit of burning veggie oil/bio-diesel in the exaust, so it seemed to be working perfectly! it idles smooth, seems to have full power, and the bio-diesel seems to be burning like it should, the only thing I am unsure of is after letting it cool, I restarted it and it wouldn't rev up fully, as if the bio-diesel was taking a bit longer to ignite and burn, preventing high reving, it idled smoothly and started the same as with regular two stroke gas mix, it just took 20 seconds or so to warm up, tomarrow I'm going to try starting it again and see if this continues.
I am trying this with the 2 stroke oil in the fuel as well to prevent the engine from being damaged as the first of my goals is to find out if a low percentage of bio-diesel will burn in a gas engine, and it seems to, so I have about 5% in my motorcycle right now, and am going to continue testing, I haven't noticed any differnce at all yet with the motorcycle, so I might bump it up to 10% on the motorcycle as well and see what happens, then braze on a nut for an o2 sensor and see if burning 10% bio-diesel damages an o2 sensor.
Mostly I want to find out if it will damage a 2 stroke engine of used as a lube, and if I can get away with running 10% a 10:1 mix of pure gasolineure bio-diesel in a two stroke without any traditional two stroke oil and not damage the engine then I'll be really happy

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I just came inside from running test mixes of gasoline/bio-diesel mixes thru my (4 stroke) Honda cb125 motorcycle, I don't have mpg tests done yet, as I wanted to find out how much bio-diesel I could use befor it I started to have problems, I started out with a 1:1 mix (half 92 octane gasoline, half B-100 bio-diesel) that i was useing as a test for fuel lines, and carburator gaskets to see how they reacted, after starting it on pure gasoline it sputtered out on the 50/50 mix unless I had it choked, so I quickly ran thru 6 ounces of that mix choked the whole time, it would sort of idle, it would sputter and pop in the mid range, and because of the choke it wouldn't rev smoothly past 6,000rpm (9,500 rpm red line) altho it did not foul the plug, it did smoke a bit of white-ish smoke.
Next I tried a 2:1 mix, with that mix I didn't need to use the choke other then to start it, and while letting it idle, it would for the most part rev up to 8 or 9K rpm, but it poped and sputtered alot, and after running thru that 6 ounces of mix I found the plug to have a bit of oil on it, no signs of oil fouling, just traces of un burnt oil on the cooler parts of the plug, altho for the most part it looked like it was burning 80-90% of the bio-diesel.
Next was a 3:1 mix, things improved, if I adjusted the idle up it would sort of idle for a few seconds befor dieing, I still had to use the choke for starting, the poping and missing still happened every few seconds or so, but mostly at higher reves, or while reving it, plug still has traces of unburnt bio-diesel, but over all it's looking good, no traces of oil at the exaust tip, very small amount of white smoke.
At 4:1 it will Idle fine with the idle adjusted higher, normal is about 1,200rpm, with this mix it's needing to idle around 2,000rpm, still signs of unburnt fuels on the plug, minumal signs of smokeing, altho the sweet smell of burning oil is still there.
At 5:1 I desided it was running smooth enough and with little enough unburnt bio-diesel on the plug that I would check the power output, with a 12hp 125cc four stroke engine this part is easy, go for a ride on a road that I've ridden it wide open befor, 9,500rpm red line, 60mph top speed, with a tail wind I can sneek it past red line to 10,000rpm down a slight hill, but for the most part 9,500rpm is it's peek, and it did it without much sputtering or poping, no visable smoking, no plug fouling, no signs of running lean, as best as I can tell from the power output of the engine, the look of the spark plug, and the look/smell of the exaust, nearly all the bio-diesel is being burnt.

The plan for latter on this week is to tear down the weed wacker and take photos of the cylender/rings, mesure the slop in the bearings, and put the thing back together, then try a 5:1 mix, and a 10:1 mix, right now the weed wacker has a 10:1 mix with some extra 2 stroke lub in it, the idea being to do away with 2 stroke lub, and just use a lubricating fuel that burns clean.
Then weld on an o2 sensor to the motorcycle, and find out how the fuel air mix is, and how it changes with these fuel, and out an o2 sensor is affected by burning bio-diesel (I have a used single wire sensor that works) if those tests pan out, the next step is to try it in my civic vx and check gas mileage.

[SVOboy]

Sweet! This is really interesting. Have you ever thought about brewing your own ethanol?

[GasSavers_Ryland]

I thought about it, and we have an entire half shelf of books on home made alcohol fuels, but I wouldn't use corn, I would be more likely to use something like potatos, or jeruselm artachoks, or saw dust, or fruit alcohol, something that isn't going to destroy the soil, corn alows for to much soil errosion, I just can't do it.
I like the idea of an oil fuel more, but as I'm learning, it's hard to burn straight oil in a gasoline engine, altho tho something between my 5:1 mix, and my 10:1 mix seem like a nice middle ground, I meen the whole idea of taking seeds, crushing them, and squizing the oil out of them seems like a great idea! then if you want to ferment the left overs, or use it as feed, or whatever.
I also want to find out tho, how the bio-diesel will work as a top end lube, and as a replacment for 2 stroke lube, the idea of useing a chainsaw, or a moped, or weed wacker and not breathing unburnt petrolum oil.

[omgwtfbyobbq]

If paraffin wax will disolve in gas, it should have the same, or better effects on the engine in terms of lubricity. If viscosity is not an issue, you can easily use filtered vegetable oil in the place of dino oil, no need to refine it if you don't have to.